From jobs to democracy - your views

8:21am Thursday 5th July 2012 in Readers' views By Letters to the editor

‘Shrinking economy’s not fault of the jobless’

How shocking and ignorant of Kris Hopkins MP that he supports the idea of cutting benefits to Yorkshire people.

The Tory party line alleging that the unemployed in Keighley and the wider region are suffering from “dependency culture” is grossly insensitive from our MP. He is not fit to represent his constituents, or should I say ‘misrepresent’ them?

Keighley people are desperate for work Kris! How many vacancies are there per person out of work in Keighley? What have you done to get our economy growing again? Thousands of young people have left this region in the holiday season to find work elsewhere, including Australia.

Many have taken part-time jobs with low incomes. This is how statistics on unemployment seem to improve slightly. Tories support firms such as Argos and Poundland to use unemployed people to get work done at no cost to themselves.

We taxpayers pay Jobseekers allowance to those who have been on the dole while they stack shelves or sweep up. So highly profitable big businesses need less staff and your policy causes unemployment to rise, Mr Hopkins. Government gets less income from tax and pays out more in benefits.

No wonder Government borrowing has risen in the last year. It is Osborne and our local Coalition MPs who have shrunk the local economy who are to blame, not those looking for work.

BOB HOLLAND

Skipton Road, Cononley

‘Democracy in action – not a conspiracy’

Having read with disgust another diatribe from David Samuels, implying yet again, he and his friends are the only voices of democracy and protectors of the public purse against the bullying, high-spending incompetent “group” within Keighley Town Council, I feel your readers deserve to hear the truth about Mr Samuels.

Fact 1: Mr Samuels was not responsible for the formation of the KTC – that was Keighley Voice, of which I was a member and Malcolm Hoddy chaired. Mr Samuels came to a couple of meetings as an “adviser”. I certainly don’t remember him “door knocking” with the rest of us collecting signatures for the required petition.

Fact 2: During my nine years on the KTC I can honestly say all incidences of councillors intimidating other councillors or trying to get them to vote in a certain way, that I was aware of, came from Mr Samuels or his “friends”.

Fact 3: If 24 out of 30 councillors generally didn’t share Mr Samuels point of view and the majority view prevailed there is probably a good reason and that is democracy in action not a conspiracy.

Fact 4: Mr Samuels’ first “hissy fit” that sent him running to the Keighley News resulted from the majority of the KTC not agreeing to pay a town clerk approximately a third of their annual funding as an annual salary.

Fact 5: In the first year of the KTC, and when it had very little funding and no town clerk, Mr Samuels, and another councillor, decided between them that the council would take over the allotments and went to City Hall, haranguing all and sundry until they got their way. The first anyone else at the KTC knew was when an officer turned up ready to hand over the allotments. The mayor and I, as relevant chairman, had to tell the officer the KTC knew nothing about this, had made no decision, didn’t have any staff or any money and so were not in a position to take on the responsibility. This resulted Mr Samuels’ second “hissy fit”.

You may ask why the KTC does nothing about all this? The truth is there is little they can do, any official complaints only result in a rash of counter complaints, all of which take time and money to resolve. Time and money which should be spent for the benefit of Keighley.

As I am no longer a councillor I cannot be “taken to standards”, nor can Mr Samuels, which is probably why he keeps resigning then trying to get elected again.

JOYCE NEWTON

(Keighley Town Councillor, 2002-2011) Valley View Close, Oakworth

Town council needs a little self-examination

Councillor Graham Mitchell seems surprised the town council has failed to secure any devolvement of services from Bradford (Letters, June 21).

The headline on the front page of Thursday, June 14, should come both as a leveller to the council, it suggests we need down-to-earth discussions on where we are getting it wrong.

As a parish council, by law we are nothing more, a budget of £395,000 a year is exorbitant in a downturn that has brought the equivalent soup kitchens, pawn shops, and the rise in demand for short-term loans back in our town.

Ill-thought-out civic decisions, well highlighted in the local press, have not helped the council’s cause, and again a huge debt that may well backfire on the ratepayer is no advert to run services.

Keighley Town Council does need a period of self-examination, you cannot demand services, be rejected, then scream to the Communities Secretary when, as a council, we have not shown any outward signs of capability to administer such services.

RP BEALE

Ridgemount Road, Riddlesden

Comments(135)

Kingchaser says...
9:05am Thu 5 Jul 12

Thanks Joyce Newton!

Blue touch is well alight!

Expect the millionth "hissy-fit" anytime soon!

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Little Green Man says...
9:41am Sun 8 Jul 12

To be fair, he always said the truth would come out, finally it does!

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jimmy k says...
10:51am Sun 8 Jul 12

it's all very quiet,maybe someones had there Internet link "sabotaged again".on a serious note though I've often wondered whether some people twist facts to suit themselves or genuinely believe their version of the truth because lets face it unless we were in the rooms with them we'll never know, all we have to go on is the insults and nonsense that have been put on these threads.

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Kingchaser says...
1:19pm Sun 8 Jul 12

Well, I've read a lot from Mr Samuels. And I've read the account from Ms Newton above. Two ex-councillors. My analysis is that one is a pompous, paranoid, self-aggrandiosing, tempermental, posturing individual pursuing their own skewed agenda at the cost of Keighley's reputation. The other is .... Joyce Newton!

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jimmy k says...
9:31pm Sun 8 Jul 12

you've inadvertently backed up my comment,kingchaser,y
es we've all been insulted, you could even say bullied by a particular person on here but does that mean he's wrong on other things that we don't know about.you can't dismiss someone because they are up themselves otherwise that would discount most of us on here.

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legsman says...
10:20pm Mon 9 Jul 12

Ha Ha Joyce, nice one! Mr Samuels takes every opportunity to have a pop at KTC but you've shown him up for what he really is, a blustering nincompoop with a one track agenda.

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Kingchaser says...
5:35pm Tue 10 Jul 12

Have to disagree Jimmy. It is encumbent upon us to come to a decision about the relative arguments, pros/cons etc of important matters. We will never have all the facts at our fingertips. So, usually the best we can do is try to make the best of it and come to a decision on who has a track record of using logic and politeness in persuading us to their view, how they deal with disagreement and most importantly how truthful they have been in things you know about. DS fails in so many of these respects that his credibility is negligible.

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cronk stanley says...
8:46am Wed 11 Jul 12

I am a new comer, but I have read some of your comments in the past, some rather distasteful.
David Samuels, like yourselves is entitled to his point of view, and so is Joyce Newton, I can only suspect that some of you may be sitting Town Councillors.
I await with interest to read your disrespectful comments to myself for having the audacity to state an opinion.
If you feel that a person is wrong, why not put forward alternative facts instead of insults ? Your posts will be far more worthy.
The choice is your own.
With due respects
Cronk,

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samuels david says...
1:48pm Wed 11 Jul 12

Addressed to ‘Cronk’ only

Your views and opinions ‘Cronk’ on this site will be anathema to the hierarchy of our
Keighley Town Council.

A belief that simplicity and a lack of egomania could have produced a high calibre town council in Keighley was I suppose an impossible dream in 2002.

That full debate, not the embarrassment of harassment of those who had hoped for a quality and opened transparent council has possibly been lost.

The KT council could have helped, to have opened up the West Yorkshire economy, it was in my view, killed off by a desire, of some, to put on robes and flaunt a corrupt past.

Simplicity, transparency, full consultation with just a little communication skill would have produced a leaner, efficient body of a coherent Council.

Instead we have a few, and I mean, just a few councillors, who have a convicted thief in a position of power, others who are raucous, loudmouth and unfortunately ridiculed throughout the area, for having produced a ‘jobs for the boys’ council, which I believe is not fit for purpose.

Debate not debacle may yet produce the dream of the 2002 Keighley Town Council.

‘Cronk’ why doesn’t the KTC, hierarchy give debate and democracy a try or haven’t they the stomach for such a thing?

David Samuels

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legsman says...
4:25pm Wed 11 Jul 12

OK then Mr Samuels, perhaps you'd like to take each of Joyce Newton's points in turn and refute each one, or is there some truth in them after all?
People might believe your side of the story if you can prove what you say.

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samuels david says...
5:50pm Wed 11 Jul 12

legsman.

I don’t normally post on this site, as basically I find that it’s a waste of time as truth is never believed and I will not do so again unless warranted.

Would you believe the truth as presented, is one question for you to think about.

However, truth will always out.

That Joyce Newton has attacked me is her right, it opens up for me and others the oppertunity to debate the affairs of Keighley Council.
It would have been honourable, however if any facts of truth had been used in her offensive outburst against me.

The Aire-Worth Reform Association of which I was a member secured funds from the Rowntree Foundation of approximately £2,500 before Mrs Newton and others had any tangible involvement, the money we received was all spent on leaflets and stationery etc, nobody ever claimed ‘expenses’.

After our campaign had reached a level of awareness, Mr Hoddy of the Keighley News was invited but refused to ‘chair’ our meetings, I understand because of his position as Editor of this newspaper.

The ‘Keighley Voice’ came about at the suggestion of Mr Hoddy and possibly others not known to me.

I took no further active role in the campaign after that, except when requested to offer myself as a candidate in a Keighley Ward. (Because nobody else would stand, I did the same at the next election.)

Fact 1 of Mrs Newton’s tirade is totally baseless and there is no documents or voice evidence in which the lady can back up any of her so called ‘facts’.

Facts 2-4 have no basis of validity worthy of any reply. One again no evidence exist to substantiate even one word of her incoherent charges made against me.

Fact 5. Again there are no minutes or records within KTC or in Bradford Council showing I ever went to Bradford or met with a person or persons with demands/requests for KTC to operate any services, let alone the Allotments, which Bob Horrel and subsequently Brian Morris were instrumental in operating, brilliantly.

Mrs Newton has many friends within KTC who would willingly supply her and others with minutes etc, which they would dearly love to prove even one word of her baseless allegations against me was true.

One other committee of note and which had a use was the Planning Committee, now destroyed in my view, formally chaired by Brian Hudson.

The rest of the committees and sub committees have become a total waste of ratepayers’ money!

The notorious Keighley Standards Committee, which I name as the 'harassment brigand' is where ‘hissy fits’ are the norm. It had once found me guilty of speaking to the press with permission!

The trial was in my absence of course, and there was a refusal to listen to my defence, so
I can't remember ever having to legally complained about the standards of other Councillors in KC, as justice, I believe, is anathema, non-existent and not allowed.

David Samuels
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Ps
To all the Keighley Town Councillors reading this posting: As you are aware I have once again received more slimy and anonymous detritus, from a Councillor in your mist. A person who has no honour and who posted the obnoxious contents, I believe from the KTC office. However until I receive more comments from the LRO of Keighley Town Council, Mrs M Bailey and her legal team, I have promised to withhold full publication.

I will however post copies of genuine emails to Councillors on request, sourced from leading the KTC who decided it was they who would control the KTC and its Councillors.

The truth may well embarrass these leading and honourable councillors, these citizens who might now be possibly,be thought of as a disgrace in Keighley by such disclosure.


David Samuels

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jimmy k says...
8:10pm Wed 11 Jul 12

i stand corrected i think i now believe joyce.

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legsman says...
12:42am Fri 13 Jul 12

Mr Samuels, Just to set you right on one point, I'm not a Councillor.
I'm just a council tax payer and voter who's fed up with seeing people taking every opportunity to have a go at KTC.
All I've ever read from you in this newspaper is 'me, me, me'.
I wouldn't vote for you, nor quite a few others because of the way you all behave.
You couldn't get your own way in council so you snipe constantly from the sidelines.
Try standing on a soapbox in the bus station and see what reaction you get. You still haven't answered all of Joyce Newton's points, dismissing them out of hand is not an answer.

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cronk stanley says...
11:58am Fri 13 Jul 12

With respect legsman many of our greatest scientists, inventors, and politicians were lone voices.
Churchill was ostracized for predicting war, Brunel was laughed at when he decided to bridge the Tamar, Watt & Stevenson encountered ridicule and many more, who were all lone men.
Do you know David ? ? As for myself I intend to keep an open mind, and respect all polite posts. Best Wishes, Cronk

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Little Green Man says...
12:43pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Seems we have another DS alias - Stanley Cronk? Come on Dave you can do better than that!!

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Kingchaser says...
1:46pm Fri 13 Jul 12

LGM, How thick does he think we are? Black Pen, Loyal Keighley, Curry and Chips Twice....and now Stanley Cronk. Lets see how long it is before he messes up and posts under the wrong pseudonym again!

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cronk stanley says...
3:20pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Kingchaser, With due respect I am not David Samuels, I do believe that you either want to believe that I am David, but you incorrectly assume.
Let me remind you sir that the first three letters of assume are **** ! Regards from Cronk.

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legsman says...
3:35pm Fri 13 Jul 12

One man's 'voice in the wilderness' is another man's 'tinfoil hat wearing sockpuppet'...
Mr Samuels is a one trick pony who sees everything as an opportunity for a dig at KTC. I know and of course understand that KTC stuck their necks out over the Civic Centre, but now it is in place I would like to see it succeed. Some would love to see it fail so they could be proven right but where's the sense in being happy that Keighley has a failure on its hands?

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jimmy k says...
4:00pm Fri 13 Jul 12

cronk stanley wrote:
With respect legsman many of our greatest scientists, inventors, and politicians were lone voices. Churchill was ostracized for predicting war, Brunel was laughed at when he decided to bridge the Tamar, Watt & Stevenson encountered ridicule and many more, who were all lone men. Do you know David ? ? As for myself I intend to keep an open mind, and respect all polite posts. Best Wishes, Cronk
sorry David you've slipped up,only you can compare yourself to Churchill or Brunell.

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Kingchaser says...
4:46pm Fri 13 Jul 12

David, When you write "I do believe" you are making an assumption. who is the donkey?

No wonder you can't get elected....with this level of debating skill!

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samuels david says...
11:11pm Fri 13 Jul 12

legsman.
Please reread my posting.
Where and what line did I ever mention where I ever stated that you were ever a Councillor, if I did, I am man enough to apologise to you, if you're not!
legsman.
What was the particular minutia point of Mrs Newton tirade I did not answer for you?
legsman.
I would love to see the Civic Centre as a success but professional advice on the oncoming economic storm was totally ignored because ‘face’ was more important than anything else and that is why Bradford believe KTC is incompetent.( You may not like the truth.....)
The problem was, and still is with the simple expedient of public transparency Keighley and no 'smoke and mirror' charades could have been, in my view, a dynamic force within this area.
That a small clique of egomaniacs took charge was what altered that situation.
The stupidity of the massive confidentially clauses, such not letting the public aware of how Ratepayers money is being spent is unbelievable in modern Britain, what is the fear of revealing that mismanagement of funds may have occurred. If it ever did happen, and it does all over the world, don’t cover it up, as lies are incapable of being covered, they swell with age to bursting point.
Trying to silence democracy is like standing on a beach and commanding the oncoming tide water to retreat. It just won’t happen. A King Canute died trying!
To all you ‘hate mongers’ try being ‘lovely people’ for a year or so, you might just get to enjoy it!
cronk stanley: As you can tell, Sir or Madam, debate is not up for discussion on this posting, only hate is available, and that is something I lost years ago. Hate is a heart killer and mind destroyer. I grew up with a knowledge, that ‘It is the sunshine which causes shadows.’ Sometimes however the shadows hide ignorance, and that I find rather sad. Welcome cronk Stanley to the world of blind and twisted intolerance.
David Samuels

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samuels david says...
11:34pm Fri 13 Jul 12

A big PS.

I'm hoping that my book comes out sometime in Sep 2012, first onKindle, then in paperback. One or two of my 'fans' on this posting may possibly find it 'interesting'

Love and Kisses

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
11:38pm Fri 13 Jul 12

Your final line describes yourself perfectly Dave, I appreciate your honesty...

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cronk stanley says...
9:23am Sat 14 Jul 12

David Samuels.
I think that instead of Letters / Opinion, this site should be re named " Insults". Although I have tried to remain impartial,I now realise that it was only a matter of time.
Let us hope that some of these people are councillors, or have close connections to, be thankful that they are not policemen, or doctors, their detection, or diagnostic skills would leave much to be desired, for example I find it inconceivable that one certain individual thinks that I am yourself, as all of my posts would suggest otherwise.
Good luck with your book. Cronk.

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jimmy k says...
10:22am Sat 14 Jul 12

insults cronk oh davids not that bad.

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samuels david says...
11:01am Sat 14 Jul 12

Cronk:
Many thanks for the support you are giving to those of us who are willing to take a stand against, what I, and others, see as the barrage of insults, mediocrity, and slime from what we realise are Keighley Council stalwarts.
These people, we believe have a true fear of debating issues of financial competence, which of course inevitably causes some of to cry out that ‘enough is enough’.

Nothing however has ever altered throughout time. Stupidity, apathy, egomania, prejudice, the same type of villains, greedy bankers, paedophiles, crooked policemen and the judiciary etc, remain.

The only alteration is that when I was born the world population was approx four billion people, now it’s heading towards eight billion and so the above mix of futility has doubled, in my opinion.

With respect ‘cronk’, I have to assume that you are a young man with obviously more intelligence than I ever had or will ever have. Because of my lack of intelligence I offer only simple advice to my five children and nine grandchildren, which is be honest to yourself and never give in to bullies, whatever the cost to one’s own dignity.

As for the individuals who, truly, believes that you and I are one person, I will take that as one of the highest compliments I have ever received.

Thank you, King Chaser, Little Green Man, and all others for such flattering remarks.

David Samuels

I love you all xxx

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Little Green Man says...
12:53pm Sat 14 Jul 12

'One certain individual' Cronk? Come on man up, grow a pair and name names. Its no wonder people think you and Dave are one and the same - you make the same baseless accusations backed up by no facts at all, 50% of what you write is meaningless gibberish (which, to be fair, is 40% more than Dave usually gives us) and you manage to mention council/councillors in any post you make. You suggest this column should be renamed 'Insults' - does that comment refer to me? If so show me the insult.

Dave, prove you are not Cronk, I guarantee 100% that you can't or that you will dodge the issue.

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jimmy k says...
1:14pm Sat 14 Jul 12

lgm,you and i both know debate with ds is pointless,I've no idea what hes like in chambers but if his debating skills there matches the posts he places here no wonder the councillors don't like him,he always has and always will accuse people of bullying and insults but what would he call referring to people as slime if not an insult.i must admit i can't help teasing him and rubbing him up the wrong way as i would anyone who has no sense of humour and is pompus.i strongly believe you should treat prople as you find and as this page is the only place i've come across ds then he shouldn't wonder why i and others have a go when he treats anyone on here who dares disagree with him with utter contempt.

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samuels david says...
1:28pm Sat 14 Jul 12

The laughable hysterical gibberish from the ‘hissy fit’ brigade has cause me and obviously many more people worldwide to cause stomach pains. That such twaddle in these days of economic gloom is heaven. Cronk, before you go to change your underpants or whatever, a question has been put by a KTC devotee, I sincerely hope you will not succumb by giving answers to the questionnaire. KTC, a suggestion why not demand that your Management and Staffing Committee turn the money spinning Civic Centre into a Comedy Club for all your fans. The world is waiting for the ‘Hissy Fit’ group to play the venue as highly paid ‘artiste’ all cash no questions ask or required. (Sorry KTC, that joke was below the belt. Lets kiss and make up!)

ps jimmy k. Have you ever tried to debate?

Kiss Kiss

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jimmy k says...
1:40pm Sat 14 Jul 12

yes regularly on these pages david,you never seem to want to get involved other then town council issues,strange that anybody would think you're obsessed.thanks for the kisses right back at you

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Little Green Man says...
1:44pm Sat 14 Jul 12

Ducking the issue - thought so Dave...

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samuels david says...
2:23pm Sat 14 Jul 12

The KN printed a letter from Mrs Newton that in my view had nothing of truth within its words, a right of reply was granted. Not piece of evidence was ever produced that could in any way back up the woman’s vile allegation.
Debate!
The usual mob of KTC of hissy fits devotees then piled in with insult against me.
Debate
An anonymous letter placed by a heroic member of Keighley Town Council into a councillor ‘Pack’. It stated I had, years ago wished the death, by cancer of a councillor who lives nearby. A lie! (More of this little story next week.)
Debate!
Strange as it might seem to you ‘jimmy k’ I am concerned about the reasons that Bradford and basically others do not wish services handed to KTC.
Debate!
Obviously, you are correct in that I am ‘obsessed’ with the ridicule that I hear every day I’m in Keighley, ridicule about ‘jobs for the boys’ town. A town where I have live for well over fifty five years.
Debate!
Thank you for the kisses.
David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
4:45pm Sat 14 Jul 12

No answer Dave? Didn't think so...

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cronk stanley says...
8:28pm Sat 14 Jul 12

I really think that some of you are getting "a little steamed up," ( Not too good for the cardiovascular system you know ! )
Green Man, your kind attention please ! How do you know that I am a man?
Now tell me, what I have said that is, gibberish ? What do you consider not factual ?
Now as this should be a debating platform, there are other things in this world besides our lamented council, can we not "change the record " ? Already 33posts, that are getting absolutely nowhere , can we agree on that ?
Thankyou.
Cronk.

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samuels david says...
8:29pm Sat 14 Jul 12

Boo! The bogyman is back!

Let’s carry on next week, cause it gets funnier!

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
3:42am Sun 15 Jul 12

Now, you are both avoiding the simple questions I asked - a sure sign!

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cronk stanley says...
9:22am Sun 15 Jul 12

Let us get something into prospective. Every time a certain person posts on these sites, within a day or so you have arround 30 posts all referring to the Town Council. If he does not post comments, the site goes goes dead.
2. The Keighley News, like any thing else will be read by those in power, and so will these posts.
3. This gent, in my opinion puts down the bait, and some of you can't wait "to grab the hook" all about the council, am I right ? He has got you well primed, no problem.
4. The council has been refused services at this time. Do you not agree that the rancor over the last few years on this site, and on the letter page have not helped, but many letters are thought provoking, that is why, if D.S. is correct standing orders may be designed to stop this from happening.
5. The council has taken on a large debt, and it is dependant on partners for the repayment. Now if you were Bradford, would you take a chance with a lucrative service, under these conditions? chances are that you would be apprehensive, if things went wrong, you run the risk of loosing your job.

Do you now agree that it is time to " change the record "?

Think about it ! Regards, Cronk.

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jimmy k says...
9:54am Sun 15 Jul 12

look I've had my bit of fun,but here are my answers to your points cronk.
1, when a certain person posts you don't get 30 posts referring to the tc you get it referring to him.
2,sorry mr ed but the kn is not read by people in power it's read by people in keighley none of whom have any power.
3,this gent does not put down the bait, read all the posts and see who is the 1 who has got worked up.
4+5 i really don't care about ktc that may be wrong of me however that is my right.i am more concerned about things in the town that in my opinion are far more serious.
the rife drug problem,the amount of anti-social behaviour that goes on in certain areas,the racial tensions that have idiots on both sides,the lack of job opportunities especially for the young that will eventually lead to a bigger underclass etc.etc.
now you say you and ds are not the same as i always take people at face value then i believe you.the only reason others doubt it is because ds has been found posting under pseudonyms to back up his arguments before.as i believe you then please do the courtesy of believing me when i say i have now nor never had anything to do with ktc i am not his nor anybody's enemy(my ex-wife may disagree)however when somebody posts something in a way i find daft or offensive i will say so .

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samuels david says...
10:29am Sun 15 Jul 12

cronk Stanley, I apologise, to you and to your friend, Little Green Man because of my continuing revelations of the activities of the KTC.

A question no members of our noble and most honourable KTC will answer is unbelievably simple, if the KTC has nothing to hide, why not publish each month the Financial Schedules and the monthly financial, 'In goings and Out goings' of the Civic Centre, and also, where is the vast promised profits of the Civic Centre to be spent. (The Councillors or the Public)

One final note cronk Stanley: With the obvious intelligence of your new friend, ‘Little Green Man’, may I dare to suggest he is well aware of your sex, but how is he aware that you and I have become a ’both’.

King Chaser, his mentor and ‘Guru’, had long ago ‘realised’ that by using the skills obtained at the Civic Centre police Museum, and paid for by Keighley Ratepayers, the ‘quickie’ course as a graphologist made him realise that our style of writing is not only symbiotic of one mind, but of the soul!

This is probably why your ‘friend’ refers, to us as a ‘both’.

Fractured as my writing is to King Chaser, it is at least honest and true but then I’m not a member of the KT hierarchy.

David Samuels

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samuels david says...
10:33am Sun 15 Jul 12

Ps.
cronk Stanley: I never had any formal education so please excuse my style and grimmer prose.

DS

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jimmy k says...
10:44am Sun 15 Jul 12

sorry david i owe you an apology you're not obsessed with ktc you're obsessed with david sa......

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Little Green Man says...
11:35am Sun 15 Jul 12

Crank, where did I bring up the subject of the council? But of course in the style of Samuels you will ignore this question like you ignored the last. Dave, your quote "I don't normally post on this site" - don't change your habits on my account.

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samuels david says...
12:24pm Sun 15 Jul 12

jimmy k, please, no need to say ‘sorry david i owe you an apology you're not obsessed with ktc you're obsessed with david sa......’ you’re so true in your assessment as me.

With my slimmed, suntanned six foot four inches of a muscular body, health fanatics could only dream of, the personally of George Clooney, the brains of Steven Fry and Professor Steven Hawkins, plus the singing voice of Donald Duck, surely even you would be obsessed with such talents.

I have tried, over many years to improve myself, however one cannot improve on perfection.

An email just received informs me that Boots the Chemist are to bring out an even more powerful beauty and brain pill, which obviously I will try, just so I can keep on asking the honest hierarchy within KTC to open up the financial records to all of Keighley Ratepawers who are interested in democracy.

Love and Kisses to you all, please, please, answer back, or I’ll miss you!
David Samuels

Ps. The one thing of dismay in my life was that I was never able to attend the Nation School or Keighley Boys Grammar School. Well as a dear friend of mind would say, who had the fortune to have studied at these places of high academia, life is never perfect.

A colour picture of me can be obtained from Keighley Town Council, under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.

Placed over your bed it will create a place and moment of tranquillity.
DS

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samuels david says...
1:48pm Sun 15 Jul 12

Cronk, I’m dismayed that you seem to be advising some hierarchy members and friends of Keighley Town Council not to respond to my comments with regard to my simplistic request for open and a fully transparent government within Keighley.

The result of such comments has been that probably half of the Keighley constituents are now aware that the standing orders may be designed to stop, the press and the local media from finding out what is happening, until the financial deed is done.

Harassment, lies and innuendoes are the basic tools used to silence honest and members of Keighley Town Council, and I have obtained many emails, proving beyond doubt that a clique has tried to sideline the council members, copies of which has been lodged with various organizations, including the national and local press for perusal.

Riddlesden, Oakworth and Morton residents are in contact with each other. There is a wish by some members of the public to set up Parish Councils within their own areas.

Bradford, not the most forward looking Council there is but has decided, possibly after an investigation, that a few litter bins and the local allotments are for the time being the only services that KTC are capable of looking after, maybe the public toilets!
Cllr Morris, not one of my ‘bestist’ friends, has been excellent at running the KT allotments, but what happens, if and when he departs. The brilliant continuity of his Chairmanship was interrupted and revealed with respect, and in my opinion, a lack of talent that could take on even the toilet blocks in Keighley.

The Planning Committee, ousted the one person with a long established building credentials, in exchange for an ex policeman, nothing wrong in ex policemen being on any committee, but to become chairman, without basic experience was, I believe, foolhardy. (For the record Mr Hudson the former Chairman of Planning, was good at his job, but no friend of mine!)

That some members of KTC, are ridiculed and accused of nepotism, harassment, etc, rightly or wrongly, has not been addressed by the hierarchy within the council.
Such a lack of understanding and of advanced communicational skills within KTC is unbelievably saddening.

The only response one receives is one of negative insults and anonymous detritus.

The ‘Dodo’ is long gone, and the ‘ostrich’ management structure that I see within KTC must cease and the first thing is the abolishment of the right to ask any and all questions within the chamber and expect chairman to answer plainly, openly and without equalisation.

Debate openly, it make ecconomic sense!

David Samuels

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jimmy k says...
2:55pm Sun 15 Jul 12

this is the the thing david if you bothered reading the posts at the top of the page i was actually defending you,you may be right about the town council and as I've said before i just don't care but when your posts become ever more bewildering and insulting in equal measures you wonder why no-body takes you serious.

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samuels david says...
6:05pm Sun 15 Jul 12

jimmy k: I am not known to deliberately insult people.

When others start to insult me, my children, my beliefs, my honesty, sincerity or my religion, I retaliate.

I have good friends, who have solid attitudes to life, in politics, and religion, and my friendships are not based on age, sexual preferences, or how high or low in the social order these friends come from.

My friendships are not based on intellectual ability, mental health, physicality problems or the colour of one’s skin.

On a daily basis, at least a dozen people shake hands with me and engage in conversation, plain silly, lewd, rude or so downright serious it make one cry. (Obviously, the plain silly, lewd, rude conversations are to do with KTC.)

I suggest the amount of correspondence and the verbal interaction I receive daily on the streets of Keighley and my phones regarding the affairs of KTC seriously contradicts your statement, which is, that nobody takes me seriously. (Ask my bored wife of fifty-six years.)

When you state I have insulted you, are you, sure it was I who first attacked. Alternatively, was it a jeer from you, which you might have thought was funny?
I would dearly like to have knowledge of this insult you say I made.

Because, as I implied at the beginning of this posting it is not in my nature to insult for no reason.

I try to be mentally strong enough if I’ve been found wanting, to apologise without question.

Liars and thieves are to me the lowest form of human life. My simple approach to such low life’s, is if they refuse to seek forgiveness, I just ignore them. I steer away from the doggy doo these people leave on the ground they walk on.

I do not hate anybody, but I will defend myself and refuse to be bullied, by KTC, its stooges, national Government or any authority.

David Samuels

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cronk stanley says...
7:11pm Sun 15 Jul 12

Thankyou jimmy k, As to whether I agree with your points or not is irrelevant, what is relevant, as you seem to imply is that we have respectful debate. That can only be good.
Ok, you are not a councillor, but I do believe others may be.
I have no reason to doubt you on that.
As for Green Man the name is Cronk, not Crank, it has a meaning, so don't be so silly !
Mature debate jimmy k, ok I'll second that.
Best Wishes. Cronk.

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Little Green Man says...
9:29pm Sun 15 Jul 12

Ok then Dave and Crank - who are the councillors posting here? If you're so sure of it name and shame if you've got the guts. We've been playing this little guess the councillor game for a year or more and Dave and his aliases and cronies have yet to name a single name or present one shred of proof - put your money where your mouth is and name names, I dare you!

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samuels david says...
11:34pm Sun 15 Jul 12

cronk stanley:

As has been said, 'Mature debate' is what is needed, may I add, not the repetitive and monotonous weekly insults that lowers the standing of the writer.

I’ve been puzzled for over year or so, why the deliberate and hateful insults are instigated, where none is required, and then the instigator shouts foul, when any retaliation is made.

'I dare you.' What a sad and childlike comment to make on such an important internationally viewed site.

These postings are seen as far aware as New Zealand and Australia, (and Huddersfield) where relatives of mine are horrified at the hatred demonstrated towards those people whose opinion is not accepted as a valid debating issue.

I have to wonder if those making such comments realise just what damage they do to the image of this town.

Surely, reflection is required and in my view the true issue is not who said what and when, but to debate the important issues of today which affects Keighley and to investigate those who spend our money as Councillors.

They could be doing a most magnificent job, but we really have no idea if this is true or if lies are being told.

What is quite obvious is KTC is perceived by me and others ratepayers to be frightened of revealing to the public all financial details of the KTC financial affairs in a monthly schedule.

Certain councillors may perusal the document, but we the ratepayers are forced to remain ignorant, as the document is considered ‘confidential’ to those of us who pay the bill. Debate: Why is this?

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
9:20am Mon 16 Jul 12

Again - no answer, show me please Dave the insults you are crying about this time...

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cronk stanley says...
10:38am Tue 17 Jul 12

samuels david wrote:
cronk stanley: As has been said, 'Mature debate' is what is needed, may I add, not the repetitive and monotonous weekly insults that lowers the standing of the writer. I’ve been puzzled for over year or so, why the deliberate and hateful insults are instigated, where none is required, and then the instigator shouts foul, when any retaliation is made. 'I dare you.' What a sad and childlike comment to make on such an important internationally viewed site. These postings are seen as far aware as New Zealand and Australia, (and Huddersfield) where relatives of mine are horrified at the hatred demonstrated towards those people whose opinion is not accepted as a valid debating issue. I have to wonder if those making such comments realise just what damage they do to the image of this town. Surely, reflection is required and in my view the true issue is not who said what and when, but to debate the important issues of today which affects Keighley and to investigate those who spend our money as Councillors. They could be doing a most magnificent job, but we really have no idea if this is true or if lies are being told. What is quite obvious is KTC is perceived by me and others ratepayers to be frightened of revealing to the public all financial details of the KTC financial affairs in a monthly schedule. Certain councillors may perusal the document, but we the ratepayers are forced to remain ignorant, as the document is considered ‘confidential’ to those of us who pay the bill. Debate: Why is this? David Samuels
Why worry your head about the council David Samuels ? Unless the old police station, that you have made reference to on occasions is beginning to generate income, there may be some financial headaches. If so, signs will soon be visible, then your observations will have some credence

You can only plug leaks for so long, till the relevant signs spring to light. Better to keep your ears to the ground, and your eye on the ball, signs will soon appear if financial problems are there..

As for Green Man, no one owes you an explanation, you are anon like myself, no one owes me an explanation. , David is not writing under a pseudonym for that he has my whole hearted respect. Cronk.

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Little Green Man says...
12:11pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Crank, you are right of course I'm not owed an explanation that doesn't mean I wouldn't like one! Daves very good at hurling accusations but is always the first to cry foul if someone so much as disagrees with him. I've been called all manner of names by him in the past (all public on this site if you can be bothered to look) yet he constantly accuses me of insulting him yet has never provided any proof - this why I continue to ask for explanations for his baseless accusations, but of course if you and he are one and the same you will know this already! :)

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samuels david says...
2:54pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Cronk: It would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad, that a person referring to you as Crank and me as Dave complains about insults shows the level of intelligence that is on the side of the harassment mangers running KTC.

When an investigation of KTC begins, it would be nice to see if the insults from all these dedicated warriors of truth and transparency continue.

Probably, but then one can’t have the shadows of life without the sun.

David Samuels. By the way, please tell me, are you me or am I you? At my age my dementia suggest that I’m important to both me and my wife and if you are me could you please ask my wife for a cup of tea me, but not for you because of the high precept imposed by KTC I can’t afford two cups.
xx

PPS Could my friends at Keighley Town Council explain to me, or you, or even to both of me, or even for that matter, Little Green Giant what democracy and transparency is?

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samuels david says...
3:56pm Tue 17 Jul 12

On sincere reflection Cronk, I realise I should not be so frivolous with LTM.

It's unbecoming and rude of me.

I should take his insults in my stride, and if LGM wishes to continue to insult me by calling me Dave, or Crank, well let it be so.

My only concern is that the harm he does is to himself, as so much hatred is not good in a fellow man.

My God, and my Minister, says that I must forgive, but it’s very hard and I will try harder.

(Does my God not realise that I’m only human, can their not be an exclusion for the high spending hierarchy of KTC and their friends:

Not at all says the Rev. J Pritchard. Well I did ask!)

Sorry!

David Samuels

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jimmy k says...
7:24pm Tue 17 Jul 12

if there was a god david(which there isn't)i believe he would be worshiping you.

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samuels david says...
8:49pm Tue 17 Jul 12

As you get older, some of us try to become wiser.

Whilst I admit to be older,
I
most certainly am not all that wise, as you can tell!

One third of my family are Catholics, one third Jewish, and the others include ordinary, very sinful, Anglicans. Jehovah Witnesses.

In fact some of my children are forceful in the belief that there is no God.

That’s all OK with me!

However, whilst I am most certainly not an arm waving ‘born again’ type, I do personally have a belief in ‘God’.

Not the Father Christmas type, or the goody good film hero type, but what is within me, is my own personal god of hope and faith, and I don’t get embarrassed if this God of mine wishes to hang about with an old reformed s..t like me!

‘Worship’ to me is far too big a word for me to understand, so what I don’t understand I don’t shake hands with, neither these days do I step into doggy doo, if I can ovoid it.

I have no qualms about saying sorry, if I’m wrong, and if it means others think I’m weird, so be it, but I sleep well at night, and can laugh loudly during the day.

David Samuels (Not a mention here of...)

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Little Green Man says...
9:25pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Do you ever read back what you write Dave? Obviously not - you slipped up a couple of times there Dave old mate. Dave or Crank, Crank or Dave you're not quite sure tonight are you Dave? Apparently the best you can do as an example of me insulting is that I call you Dave? Really Dave? Is that the best you can do Dave? Its no wonder you quit your post as councillor twice if thats all it takes to upset you Dave. Where are all your other friends these days Dave? Even your trusty sidekick Big Ron seems to have deserted you, still look on the bright side Dave - at least with all your aliases you'll always have someone to talk to! By the way Dave, if calling you Dave really upsets you that much old pal then I apologise - what would you prefer in the future, Wizard? Black Pen? Loyal Keighley? Old Reformed S**t?

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jimmy k says...
9:52pm Tue 17 Jul 12

samuels david wrote:
As you get older, some of us try to become wiser. Whilst I admit to be older, I most certainly am not all that wise, as you can tell! One third of my family are Catholics, one third Jewish, and the others include ordinary, very sinful, Anglicans. Jehovah Witnesses. In fact some of my children are forceful in the belief that there is no God. That’s all OK with me! However, whilst I am most certainly not an arm waving ‘born again’ type, I do personally have a belief in ‘God’. Not the Father Christmas type, or the goody good film hero type, but what is within me, is my own personal god of hope and faith, and I don’t get embarrassed if this God of mine wishes to hang about with an old reformed s..t like me! ‘Worship’ to me is far too big a word for me to understand, so what I don’t understand I don’t shake hands with, neither these days do I step into doggy doo, if I can ovoid it. I have no qualms about saying sorry, if I’m wrong, and if it means others think I’m weird, so be it, but I sleep well at night, and can laugh loudly during the day. David Samuels (Not a mention here of...)
Jewish ,Catholic,Anglicans,
jehovah witness,Christmas at your house must be a nightmare you have to be careful who you send cards to.i'm still trying to work out if there should be a comma after very sinful.

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samuels david says...
10:01pm Tue 17 Jul 12

LGM: If pure hatred is what turns you on, then I’m sorry for you.

Without trying to sound patronizing it would seem that you need to medicine and sleep.

As you are aware I quit the Council simply because the hierarchy had in my view taken the Council over as Emails in my possession had indicated that they would.

These Emails have been released to various meda and Governmental authorities for perusal and you and the public will probably have access to them very shortly.

Love and Kisses

David Samuels

Ps Your hatred must be deep, I wonder why?

Good night and goodbye

This is the last time I will communicate to you.

Please, go and get some sleep!

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samuels david says...
10:06pm Tue 17 Jul 12

Jimmy k: if you wish to put a comma after very sinful,,do it!
We still have some freedoms left in Keighley. The KTC has not as yet silenced at free thought.

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
10:11pm Tue 17 Jul 12

The last time Dave? Again? I don't hate anyone Dave I'm not quite sure where you get that idea - oh yes, did I dare to disagree with you once? Maybe thats why you think I hate you. I enjoy are little chats old mate your perception that I hate you is as flawed as your idea that I constantly insult you. Come to think of it its probably a reflection of your own hatred of me, you just can't stand not knowing who I am can you? :) Maybe I am a councillor, maybe I was, maybe I'm your next door neighbour with a sharpened pair of wire cutters or maybe I'm just a random guy who likes shooting fish in a barrel for a laugh :)

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cronk stanley says...
9:52am Wed 18 Jul 12

These posts are getting even more stupid, as more mount up. What a sad reflection on Keighley.

I think that Viz, if you can still buy it, would make better reading.

Unless transmigration has taken place without me knowing, I am not David.
I can not help but wonder how some of you can get so silly, it astounds me!

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Little Green Man says...
9:59am Wed 18 Jul 12

But you still keep coming back Crank! Maybe you like to have the last word, I know someone else like that...

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cronk stanley says...
1:13pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Its no good Green Man is it ? I did hope that you might alter the tone of your posts and raise your profile, some hope !

The only person you make look foolish and somewhat unsavory is yourself, are you really too dim to see that.

You are of course very welcome to the last word, although I will still talk with others

So there you go, all yours .......... Cronk.

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samuels david says...
1:20pm Wed 18 Jul 12

cronk Stanley

I regrettably suggest cronk, from the postings LGM places on this site, that I believe he/she is may possibly be mentally afflicted in some way.

I had once decided, because of these beliefs that I would make no further, direct, contact with LGM on this site.

Not engaging with LGM, I had thought would have been an honest solution to what many would suspect was the problem he/she may have regarding my comments on KTC.

My distress is that I relented and clearly, the mistake I made was in trying to open up a level-headed channel of discourse with LGM.

As everbody can see, it has brought about a reoccurrence of past literary taunts and abuse, etc. as demonstrated in the posting of 10:11pm Tue 17 Jul 12.

The general public and KTC members are well aware of these rants, so my suggestions is you ignore and refrain from trying to address LGM, who has not, in my personal view, the ability at all in replying, pleasantly and coherently to points of a sensible debate.

Without being in any way condescending to you, I firmly believe my suggestion would be the best way forward for all, including the readers of this site.

As I’ve no other way of contacting you except through this site, please accept, my sincere apologies if you think I’ve overstep my position as an observer in this matter.

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
1:38pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Dave, you and your sidekick/alter ego Crank really are the funniest people I have ever come across! The way you talk to yourselves is really entertaining. As for your proof of my 'abuse' Dave the post you refer to doesn't contain any abuse - anyone reading it would be laughing their conkers off thinking that you actually thought it was abuse :) I'd be interested to know exactly which part of this was worse than your referring to me as 'mentally afflicted' or your puppet, Crank, referring to me as 'too dim to see'

Anyway Dave old pal may I remind you that not a few hours ago you said 'This is the last time I will communicate to you' Yet here you are making false accusations against me again - you're really not a man of your word are you? How could anyone take you seriously when you so blatantly lie?

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Little Green Man says...
1:38pm Wed 18 Jul 12

Dave, you and your sidekick/alter ego Crank really are the funniest people I have ever come across! The way you talk to yourselves is really entertaining. As for your proof of my 'abuse' Dave the post you refer to doesn't contain any abuse - anyone reading it would be laughing their conkers off thinking that you actually thought it was abuse :) I'd be interested to know exactly which part of this was worse than your referring to me as 'mentally afflicted' or your puppet, Crank, referring to me as 'too dim to see'

Anyway Dave old pal may I remind you that not a few hours ago you said 'This is the last time I will communicate to you' Yet here you are making false accusations against me again - you're really not a man of your word are you? How could anyone take you seriously when you so blatantly lie?

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jimmy k says...
1:52pm Wed 18 Jul 12

david,saying someone has a mental illness really is the lowest you've sunk to, just because someone doesn't agree with you,i would report the post and ask it to be removed except i believe it shows you for what you are.if you had a decent bone in your body you would apologise for that remark and any offence caused, but of course you won't,you'll just go off in the usual self pitying way.

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jimmy k says...
1:54pm Wed 18 Jul 12

david,saying someone has a mental illness really is the lowest you've sunk to, just because someone doesn't agree with you,i would report the post and ask it to be removed except i believe it shows you for what you are.if you had a decent bone in your body you would apologise for that remark and any offence caused, but of course you won't,you'll just go off in the usual self pitying way.

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Little Green Man says...
12:42pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Is it my imagination or has Crank gone quiet the same time Dave has gone quiet?

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billys says...
11:31pm Thu 19 Jul 12

Children speak more sense in the school playground, I think you could all learn some manners and respect from said children. You all need to grow up and if you are all councillors then I dread to think what this towns future will be.

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Little Green Man says...
8:15am Fri 20 Jul 12

Well thanks Billy, I'm afraid though that some people have no sense of respect or manners which makes things difficult. I do appreciate your polite comment though, thank you!

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cronk stanley says...
10:42am Fri 20 Jul 12

Cronks Day Out.

Cronk went off for a day, you know, one of those days that some times comes to us older people, that is when you have not seen some one for over 25yrs, then " out of the blue", quite by chance, your paths cross, so you arrange to meet up.

You meet, you recognize each other, after all these years.
" How are you ? You have not changed a bit" ( you have of course, your looking older, but you don't say that )

"Its great to see, you, like a coffee "?

" Well if its ok by you, I've got a chicken in the oven, is that ok, do you like chicken ?

Great ! I'm starving, lead on !

Railway stations play such a big part in our lives, sad fare wells, happy re unions.

Had a wonderful day. Cronk.

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Little Green Man says...
11:57am Fri 20 Jul 12

Glad you had a nice day Crank!

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samuels david says...
4:07pm Fri 20 Jul 12

cronk: I must meet up with you one day,, if only to see what I look like!

David Samuels

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samuels david says...
4:09pm Fri 20 Jul 12

ps. cronk, I do hope that I'm as good looking as I our mirror says we are.

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
5:01pm Fri 20 Jul 12

Cranks back, Daves Back! Coincidence?

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cronk stanley says...
1:47pm Sat 21 Jul 12

David Samuels.

Are you going to reply to Mrs Newton ?

This lady seems to be the spokesperson for the council. maybe she may be co opted on if a seat goes cold.

You know, I think that those at the Old P.C. don't like you, you cause them agro. Councils do not like that, they do not want people to think too hard and you " stir up the up the pot ", very naughty, no wonder some bright spark severed your telephone line.

Take care. Cronk.

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Little Green Man says...
3:41pm Sat 21 Jul 12

'Stir up the pot'? Really Crank? daves been muttering on about the council for two years or more making accusations and constantly threatening a 'big disclosure' and as yet we haven't seen a single shred of proof. Those councillors he claims hate him so much must laugh their socks off every time he posts here with yet another false claim! As for the 'bright spark' who cut his phone lines - we all know who that was and its a wonder the old f@rt didn't get done for wasting police time.

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billys says...
8:52pm Sat 21 Jul 12

I always thought little green men came from Mars, but on closer reflection I wonder if it could be a Freudian slip of green with envy, of a certain person perhaps lol

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jimmy k says...
9:05pm Sat 21 Jul 12

ok cronk and billy wise move sticking up for ds then he won't call you "mentally deficient"i see he hasn't said anything about that so he must think it's o.k. to call people that who don't agree with him.

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samuels david says...
12:13am Sun 22 Jul 12

cronk: At the present moment other, I've had more pressing work. That is due out September I am told.
.
For obviouse reasions it has had to take precedence over everything else.

However, Mrs Newton incoherent outburst, I agree warrants a short reply.

That the Lady will be co opted is a ‘definite’, bums on seats is the name of the game, as demonstrated with some present members within the controlling group within KTC.

I would strongly disagree with you when you suggest the high spending, dictatorial, non transparent, megalomaniacs’ little children within the intelligent hierarchy of our local parish council do not like me.

Nothing could be further from the truth, and truth is the guiding principle of KTC.

Each day I receive loving postings from all sexes on this blog.

No insults, or tyrannical comments.

I would have to admit however that I’ve receive childish comments and emails, from leading KTC’s, such as ‘sticks and stones will break my bones...’ but on this site, only reasoned intelligent debate and courtesy is made to all my opinions.

Education and good parental upbringing manners maketh man.

My five children and nine grandchildren still think I’m ‘The Daddy’, (whatever that means.)

David Samuels

Ps Have I worked out if I am you or you is me, it does confuse all those who really don’t like you, but really love me.

DS

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samuels david says...
12:19am Sun 22 Jul 12

cronk, it's late:

The line should read as follows.
Education and good parental upbringing maketh man and good manners.

My aEducation and good parental upbringing manners maketh man.

My apologies, DS

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samuels david says...
12:19am Sun 22 Jul 12

cronk, it's late:

The line should read as follows.
Education and good parental upbringing maketh man and good manners.

My aEducation and good parental upbringing manners maketh man.

My apologies, DS

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samuels david says...
12:19am Sun 22 Jul 12

cronk, it's late:

The line should read as follows.
Education and good parental upbringing maketh man and good manners.

My aEducation and good parental upbringing manners maketh man.

My apologies, DS

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Little Green Man says...
12:59am Sun 22 Jul 12

Did any of that make any sense? nd he calls me mentally deficient!!!

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cronk stanley says...
9:55am Sun 22 Jul 12

Do any of you think that the Parish Councils should take on the unattended Public Conveniences ?

Come on all of you, sensible comments and respectful debate, certainly this subject can not "ruffle anyone's feathers."

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Little Green Man says...
10:02am Sun 22 Jul 12

I doubt they are up to the task!

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cronk stanley says...
11:06am Sun 22 Jul 12

Wonder if there are any loo's in the old police station ? If so, which partners will be running them ? will the special co-ordinator, whatever they call him be cleaning them ?

O'h well, Sunday morning, tome for some bacon and egg, then I had better get on with some work. Cronk.

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billys says...
11:41am Sun 22 Jul 12

Yes there are some nice toilets in the old police station, don't know who is cleaning them tho,I like the toilets in wetherspoons even more, now those are classy and very clean.

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billys says...
11:49am Sun 22 Jul 12

Oh and the food is good too, cheap food classy toilets what more can you ask for, and the ambiance is even better.

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jimmy k says...
5:07pm Sun 22 Jul 12

i don't think that wetherspoons is that good i just think the majority of pubs in the town are poor .

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Little Green Man says...
10:11pm Sun 22 Jul 12

Wetherspoons is fine if you don't mind microwaved food and sitting with the great unwashed getting drunk on the cheap lager

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jimmy k says...
10:14pm Sun 22 Jul 12

I've had many a good holiday abroad like that lgm.

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jimmy k says...
10:19pm Sun 22 Jul 12

also it seems to be the great unwashed are the only people who can afford to drink all day on their benefits, but that of course is a totally different argument....

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samuels david says...
12:48am Mon 23 Jul 12

Cronk: This is the best number so far 96 and still talking about the KTC hierarchy and toilets. Unfortunately, nice man as he is, I really don’t think that the Editor of the Keighley News would appreciate insults that would be subjected to his power of veto regarding taste and decorum. It a tempting subject for many to throw about, but I for one would be happy for a proponent to debate whether the Events Committee miserable efforts, my opinion, be abandoned so that public toilets could produce an all year round convenience for all the public. As for the members of the KTC hierarchy cleaning the toilets, for free! That is never going to happen while high expenses are to be had. Such an idea would be flushed away quickly, no expenses no toilet, no Event Committee, no loo. Retraining, to a far higher standard than at present the many superfluous committees, including the harassment, Management and Staffing Committee, could possibility be taught to become useful by mopping up the detritus they have caused in the old police station, just my opinion of course cronk. I just wonder if all, my many enthusiastic friends on this site, who cheer me on, would agree with me. Of course they would! David Samuels

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samuels david says...
12:55am Mon 23 Jul 12

CronkJust finished my jottings for the night.

Just had to rush out a few words for the posting so my friend could break the record of showing the quality of feelings which sustains the credibility of KTC.

DS ,

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Little Green Man says...
9:09am Mon 23 Jul 12

Don't forget the benefits go towards their smoking and drug habits Jimmy!

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cronk stanley says...
10:36am Mon 23 Jul 12

jimmy k wrote:
also it seems to be the great unwashed are the only people who can afford to drink all day on their benefits, but that of course is a totally different argument....
You are correct, jimmy k, it is a different argument, but there is truth in your comment.

Getting back to toilets, should the Parish Councils operate them ?

David Samuels, now nearing 100 posts, are you going to stimulate the more recent flagging site's ?

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Little Green Man says...
11:49am Mon 23 Jul 12

Sorry Crank, I can't let that one go - that is the second misplaced apostrophe is as many posts! You're nearly as bad as Dave when it comes to command of the English language :)

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samuels david says...
12:02pm Mon 23 Jul 12

cronk:

Whilst I would agree with your implication that other items on this site need debate, my priorities are sadly curtailed because of other writing commitments, so my comments on other subjects are limited.

I have become intrigued as to why the KTC cohorts refuse to debate issues of the spending of public money, in particular, expenses, staff cost, loans etc.

Committee structures, such as Cllr Wright’s Events Committee needs scrutiny.

Most intriguing is the endorsement by the Watch and Transport Committee, which has the duty of liaising with the Keighley Police, of recently placing a convicted thief into the post of Deputy Chairman. That most certainly needs debating by the public. (In my view if true.)

The dictatorial Management and Staffing Committee also need’s the public’s attention, but there is so much wrong, in my view, at KTC, as for instance, why do the KTC cohorts obfuscate and refuse to debate the issues of the spending of public money, in particular, expenses, staff cost, loans etc.

Are they trying to hide something?

David Samuels.

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Little Green Man says...
12:12pm Mon 23 Jul 12

KTC cohorts Dave? Just who are you referring too?

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samuels david says...
1:00pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Cronk. Your friend LGM is most certainly a master of grammar and of the English language, so much so that detailed analysis of his future gems of literary brilliance could obviously teach us all about how to conduct ourselves when writing our thoughts quickly.

It does prove however, that he not is a member of the KTC hierocracy, as most members of that band of self-rightness warriors have made the same mistakes as the Town Clerk, and to be honest, even myself. (Which is why my English book editor as delayed its publication.)

Oh well, I just wished that I’d enjoyed a formal education, cronk, just so I could have enjoyed the full fruits of life as has your friend LGM.

By the way Cronk, you may be aware, from the authors and contributors of such tomes as the, Concise Oxford Dictionary, our language alters virtually daily.

That the vocabulary, of today is most certainly not of fifty years ago, and that in the time of Charles Darwin, the evolutionist, there were only half the words then as compared to words used today.

Obviously Charles Darwin, being an evolutionist realised all would change in the English language that he understood, and used, including the serious issue of that misplaced apostrophes your friend LGM makes note of, while the world is falling apart.

I still am pleased my God didn’t give me the brain he gave your friend.

By the way cronk what do you know about a guy called Nero, please inform me!

David Samuels

(PS cronk, I'm well aware of my shortcomings in this posting!

DS

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Little Green Man says...
1:29pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Can't answer a simple question can you Dave? Do you realise how ridiculous you look having a pop at me via your imaginary friend Crank? If you're so popular Dave and you have friends and supporters all over the world, Dave, where are they? Jumping to your defence? Defending your honour? I don't see it Dave, not that I'm having a go Dave, just curious thats all...

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cronk stanley says...
2:22pm Mon 23 Jul 12

O'h ! good grief, Green Man is really dredging the bottom now picking me up on my grammar. Well green man, I was not born a Brit, you see, my priorities are different, my lot do not criticize, we believe that we are all fallible, we learn off each other. You see, odd mistakes are overlooked, the content of the written, or said word is more important, yes, we all have different viewpoints, but we have little hate ,if any, our way of life tell us this wrong you see.

Differences occur, but they are soon sorted out,, life is too short.

Yes, it is great to go home sometimes, the welcome and warmth still exist in our little corner. Unlike here, we do not spit venom at people we have never met, or even know, we leave that to the snakes,.

David Samuels ,author of many books I believe, your kind attention please! You have rattled this poor guy again, it is not funny to go on taunting him. Cronk.

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Little Green Man says...
2:48pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Your turn now Dave - don't get mixed up now!

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billys says...
3:30pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Lets get back to the public loos. Seriously I do not believe K.T.C. can afford to run the loos, they would have to charge and with so many free loos around and about they won't make any money. I do not think the special co-ordinator will clean them, his charges may be a bit too high. Oh well!, I will continue to use the classy toilets in wetherspoons, and the old police station, if only to get something back for my money, it cost enough. Just had a thought, they may not charge for the loos, they can use any profit from the old police station to finance them. Problem solved

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samuels david says...
4:45pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Cronk: Obviously, you are right, taunting LGM is certainly not correct, and for which, as a Christian, I must apologise.

However as a meek mortal, may I refer you to the LGM posting of 10:11pm Tue 17 Jul 12th and one of his many vile and sordid references.

He states he is a ‘guy who likes shooting fish in a barrel for a laughs.’ It is a fact I do not hate anybody, I did once, but not for the last fifty years. Hatred mentally kills those who hate.

Malleable as I am in my faith, I refuse to tread in ‘doggy do’, i.e. refuse to shake hands or invite those into my home or office because, I feel these people are not honest, or haven’t the strength of character to admit mistakes, and haven't the courage to apologise, not in a church but in public, is my right, would you cronk?

It is true, I get slightly annoyed when old people yet picked upon by self-proclaimed educated people who cannot even spell my name or yours for that matter.

Other issues that LGM and his many friends or relatives in KTC need to address, is not your misplaced apostrophe, but in my opinion, more pressing subjects originating from KTC, being swept under the carpet, such as why is K.T.C. subsidizing a bus service outside our parish.
The Bronte Scenic Tour, nice as sounds, but doesn’t address the problem of proposed withdrawal of bus services within the Keighley area, that the Town Council can spend ratepayer’s money on buses for outside constituents I find obtuse.

David Samuels

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jimmy k says...
5:00pm Mon 23 Jul 12

can you at least answer one question david do you think your posts here helps your cause?

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samuels david says...
7:04pm Mon 23 Jul 12

jimmy k you asked of me. ‘can you at least answer one question david do you think your posts here helps your cause?’

To answer your question is simple, honesty is my cause, nothing more and believe it or not, that is what the majority of people require.

Today I shopped with my wife in Sainsbury’s, then we drove across to Morrison’s.

While my wife does the shopping, I drink a cup of tea and read my newspaper.

Today I was stopped by six people, who asked me about local KTC members and what was my honest opinion regarding particular members.

Some members of the public are vociferous in what they state is a council perceived, as a ‘job for the boys’ club.

Others become verbly violent when I display Emails which shows practises that inhibit free speech.

Protocols that limit what can be revealed to those paying for council services, you the ratepayer.

For instance how much is the lost/profit account at the Civic Centre.

Who is employed and paying employees taxes, and who is deemed to be ‘self employed’, thus possibly enjoying ‘Tax Breaks.’

How many of the staff have had relatives earning money from the Council.

Why, jimmy k, should these facts be hidden?

Do you believe such issues should be kept quiet?

What credibility is there left in a Council that promotes a convicted person to be Deputy Chairman of a committee dealing with the local police.

What must local police officers and the police authority think of Keighley Town Council in such circumstances?
Not much I believe from the conversations I’ve had with embarrassed local officers of the law.

Who were the Council members who proposed and then seconded this person that placed Keighley in this invidious humiliating position.

David Samuels

ps A simple question for you jimmy k. Should these facts and many more be hidden or not? No eqivication, yes or no?

Ds

DS.

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jimmy k says...
7:35pm Mon 23 Jul 12

you really don't get the irony do you ds,i ask you what should be a simple yes or no but you give me a speech that includes today's shopping habits and then you say to me no equivication,yes or no?(i guess you mean equivocation)you really have brightened up made my evening.

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samuels david says...
8:15pm Mon 23 Jul 12

If my reply has made you happy then I'm pleased for you jimmy k

Ds

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billys says...
8:16pm Mon 23 Jul 12

I take it the toilet debate is now closed, and hopefully K.T.C. are considering my suggestion. I must admit I have found this site quite entertaining as I am not emotionally involved as when my children have their little spats (that can be quite draining). I do think little envious man sorry, little green man and jimmy k may have had a troubled childhood or were horrible children that never grew up. I must admit now in all seriousness, I myself would like some answers to some of D S's questions. I have come to the conclusion I will be at the next K.T.C. meeting and will sit in the public gallery and maybe some of my queries will be voiced by the more principled members, if not there is always the letters page.

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jimmy k says...
8:46pm Mon 23 Jul 12

please explain your comment about me billys

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jimmy k says...
8:55pm Mon 23 Jul 12

btw billys why just stick lgm and myself why not have a go at ds as well after all hes the one who called someone mentally deficient because he disagreed with him, now thats what i call nasty.

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samuels david says...
8:56pm Mon 23 Jul 12

billy's, there are principled members within KTC but they being so principled do not get to access to the hidden secrets within KTC.

jimmy k seems to be the spitting image of LGM and LGM seems to be the spitting image of ..... so that ends my further conversation with the spitting images.I suggest jimmy k that last comment is irony.

billy’s, any question that I

can answer for you dear sir I

will do, with honesty and

frankness, and with no

equivocation. ( by jove

jimmy k, I just wish that I’d

your education!)

DS

Ps billy's are you my contact in Bogthorn or Oakworth?

DS

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jimmy k says...
9:04pm Mon 23 Jul 12

thats it david always leave them with a laugh,this is my final attempt to get an answer but i know what will happen,that comment you made about lgm(the one about him being mentally deficient) may have been done in the heat of the moment so in hindsight do you think that you may have (inadvertently)offen
ded some people,and even if you didn't mean any offence don't you think you owe anyone an apology who may have taken offence?

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cronk stanley says...
10:02pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Phew, you lot do go on, don't you ? I still think that, well, I'd like to think that you had " More goods in the attic" than your posts suggest.

Out of interest, I am not David Samuels,please accept my positive assurances on that.

Time for wine. Cronk

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Little Green Man says...
10:12pm Mon 23 Jul 12

If you're going to quote me to make a point Dave then at least get it right, I said 'maybe, I'm just a random guy who likes shooting fish in a barrel' The maybe at the start of the sentence is quite important as I'm sure even someone as ill-educated (by your own admission) should know. I'd also like to know quite what is offensive about it? When are you going to address me directly instead of via your imaginary friends? Not got the guts I expect...

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samuels david says...
10:37pm Mon 23 Jul 12

Jimmy k Please quote the actual date, posting and the phrase ‘mentally deficient’ which you say I used

Cronk, I know you are not me and you know I am not you, so leave alone as the good news is that the world is fine and dandy and enjoy your wine.

Now that a question which, has bugged me for nearly a year has at last been resolved,I bid both LGM and his friend, Jimmy K, adieu. dear friends and a hearty goodbye and big kisses.

Take the medicine and sleep tight as no further dialogue from me is to be made available to you, unless of course you can find the phrase I supposedly used.

To all others I remain determined to post even more news from your ever thrifty KTC and now without hindrance, just the usual detritus and insults from the side.

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
10:48pm Mon 23 Jul 12

So you persist in talking about me to Crank, without referring directly to me - very much like you went to Bradford Council behind the back of KTC as Joyce Newton pointed out at the start of these proceedings, pretty much proves what she said then!

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billys says...
11:03pm Mon 23 Jul 12

DS with all respect you cannot give me answers as you are not on the K.T.C. you seem to be asking a lot of questions yourself. I suggest you go to the next council meeting and we can have a good chat in the public gallery. I may be a bit naive in thinking this will give me a bit of insight into the running of said council, but you never know I might just stand for council in the next elections, might get some answers then. lgm and jk your comments about the type of people who go to wetherspoons was quite frankly out of order, and no I do not drink but have been known to use the loos as our library doesn't have any. Anyway I do hope the council take my advise on the toilets.Thats a thought, maybe they could take over the library and put some classy loos in there out of all that lovely profit the old police station will generate. Maybe I will find out when I go to the council meeting if profit margins come up. Will have to find out if I can ask questions, maybe you all can enlighten me.

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Little Green Man says...
8:34am Tue 24 Jul 12

Since you admit you don't drink in there Billyboy I don't see how you qualify to comment either. I don't go in there anymore purely because of the type of people I described. As for standing for the council I suggest you go ahead and do it - you certainly couldn't be worse than some of the current ones and surely you would be better than some previous ones! (at least you might stick it out for more than five minutes before stomping off home in a strop)

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samuels david says...
10:43am Tue 24 Jul 12

Billys:

my advice would be to stay well away from KTC under its present leadership.

If you don’t do as you’re told by the hierarchy and fully obey, the dogs of wrath will descend upon you and try to destroy you.

Cllr Beale, of Riddlesden, because he had decided to fight for the right of free speech was accused by one of the Council’s low life that he was a member of the British National Party, a lie that was proved to be part of a campaign to silence the man.

I have an email titled ‘you yid’ amongst many other forms of abuse, etc.

Ex councillor, Joyce Newton has told lies which was that I and an unknown KTC councillor/councillo
rs visited Bradford without authority and talked to unknown Bradford Councillors’/Offic
ials.
Complete and utter lies!

An anomalous letter, what else, which stated that I had wished the death of Cllr Westerman dead from cancer.

This letter was I believe inserted by a known low life councillor, into a pack of official papers and delivered to Cllr Beale.
My complaint to the Keighley Town Clerk, who is totally responsible for her office functions has received a negative response.

The lies and innuendoes thrown at me, (See 7:04pm Mon 23 Jul 12 on this site, as a ‘for instance.’) whenever challenged, is never substantiated, no proof is ever given, except that of silence, but silence is the key to KTC survival.

Billys, as stated my advice is to keep well away from the sewage of the KTC, it’s a toxic illness for many.

David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
11:50am Tue 24 Jul 12

Not that you are bitter or anything are you Dave?

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Little Green Man says...
11:50am Tue 24 Jul 12

Not that you are bitter or anything are you Dave?

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Little Green Man says...
11:56am Tue 24 Jul 12

I think you mean 'anonymous' rather than 'anomalous' Dave although it's hard to tell what you are on about at the best of times. Also the post you refer to regarding 'lies and innuendo' (7:04pm July 23rd) is your own post! Have you been slandering yourself now? Why not though, you're probably the only person left you haven't slandered or libelled!

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samuels david says...
1:07pm Tue 24 Jul 12

The last and final posting to LGM and jimmy.
You two have lied once again, re your outrageous 'Mentally Deficient' comments.

I do however suggest that you need psychiatric help, and soon, and yes I am aware of who you are!

No further comment from me whatever the filth that you utter about me.


David Samuels

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samuels david says...
1:07pm Tue 24 Jul 12

The last and final posting to LGM and jimmy.
You two have lied once again, re your outrageous 'Mentally Deficient' comments.

I do however suggest that you need psychiatric help, and soon, and yes I am aware of who you are!

No further comment from me whatever the filth that you utter about me.


David Samuels

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Little Green Man says...
1:47pm Tue 24 Jul 12

Haha! You've no idea who I am Dave - so there's a lie. Show me the filth I've uttered Dave - there is none, another lie, sorry mate! You suggest I need psychiatric (well done with the spelling by the way :) ) help because you tripped yourself up on your own lies? Tell me another one, my old friend! (Perhaps you were looking in the mirror when you wrote that line :) ) As for your 'no further comment' remark, is that no further comment ever? Like the last time? Like the time before that? Like earlier this week? I don't this so Dave, you'll be back, it might take you a while because you're as stubborn as you are deluded, I'll look forward to it though old mate although I suggest that you have proof of any accusations you make and probably you should get some 'real' friends then perhaps you might actually win an argument!

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jimmy k says...
7:06pm Tue 24 Jul 12

wed 18th at 1.20 pm. just a final thought as i don't want to bring the tone down too much but when ds talks about dark secrets and mysteriopus contacts i feel i'm in the middle of a john le carre novel.lgm are you my contact in wetherspoons? do the starlings only fly backwards in the old police station?

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jimmy k says...
8:14pm Tue 24 Jul 12

just wondering wonder when anyone reading this thread other then us 3 lost interest,my bets between 20/30

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Little Green Man says...
9:13am Wed 25 Jul 12

Probably, they missed the best bit though - a classic example of Mr Angry digging himself a hole and jumping in it. Not suprisingly Crank and Billyboy have both been quiet as well - funny that!

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jimmy k says...
4:32pm Wed 25 Jul 12

at least when he storms out of here,it doesn't cost the taxpayer anything unlike the times he's stormed out of the council thus causing bi-elections.

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jimmy k says...
10:06pm Wed 25 Jul 12

this comment is for billy s you said you don't drink at wetherspoons you only use the toilets there but in an earlier posting you said the food is good and so is the ambiance. you really should make your mind up and stop getting confused you remind me of someone who could that be?????????

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