Councillor hits out at web page 'lies'

A councillor has hit out at people whom he has accused of “telling lies” online about Keighley Town Council.

Coun Michael Westerman, who is vice-chairman of the local authority’s watch and transport committee, said people posting comments on a Facebook page were insulting him and his colleagues.

Speaking during the council’s full March meeting last Thursday, he argued these critics were choosing to ignore the good work the town council is doing for the community.

“There’s a debate going on about this council on a website at the moment,” he said. “And one of the biggest lies of all is that we ‘do not care one jot for the people of Keighley’.

“The people of this town have asked for a bus service to go past the new police station – we’re talking to the bus operator and to Metro to try to achieve this.

“Also, people have asked us for Boxing Day and New Year’s Day bus services – again, we’re talking to Metro about this.

“People have come to us about the possibility of developing a new footpath leading all the way to the tarn, about a new neighbourhood ‘welcome’ sign for Bogthorn and about four additional grit bins at locations not served by Bradford District Council. We’re looking into all these different things, and have bought and installed the sign and provided the four extra bins.”

Coun Westerman added: “Every elector has the democratic right to disagree with us, but they don’t have the right to tell lies about us and insult us.”

The town council has recently come in for fierce criticism regarding its handling of the new Civic Centre in North Street, which is £74,000 in the red.

Some councillors and members of the public have also attacked last month’s decision to increase the town Council Tax precept by a record 72.6 per cent.

l What do you think? We welcome letters on this or any other subject. E-mail richard.parker@keighleynews.co.uk or write to The Editor, Keighley News, 80-86 North Street, Keighley BD31 3AG. Please include your full name, address and daytime telephone number.

Comments (61)

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6:43pm Sun 17 Mar 13

Flyin the ointment says...

Cavetown council on face book tells a different tale! Truth will always come out in the end!
Cavetown council on face book tells a different tale! Truth will always come out in the end! Flyin the ointment
  • Score: 0

9:55am Mon 18 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Mick, I've known you for thirty years, and you are well known throughout Keighley as a truly honest and upstanding citizen, ‘exemplary’ it was said of you by your close colleague Cllr Tony Wright.

It is not a puzzle to me, that you, a man claiming sick pay was able, twice it seems, to load up ‘Grit Bins’ for Keighley Town Council.

Ok so, even through you are paid expenses from KTC you still claimed another near £80 for doing this service, but it seems you loyally put your health further at risk by this unselfish act.

I suggest your many loyal colleagues within the KTC hierarchy should appoint you as General Manager of the Civic Centre, with of course Cllr Mitchell, as your Public Relations confidant.

The redoubtable Cllr Mitchell could answer the reasons why secrecy was needed to silence criticism regarding the finances of the Civic Centre when you, a known ‘exemplary’ public figure, long ago realised that being open and honest with the public was an easier way forward than the morass of public anger KTC now finds itself embroiled in.

Come on Mick, in your own words of course, tell the public, in the Keighley News, of all the many lies which has been told about you and Keighley Town Council. It could counter the facts being bandied about by some members of the horrible Caveman Council regarding the reasons you and some of your honourable fellow Councillors are perceived to be loathed and detested.

David Samuels

Ps Is it true, you are to be appointed as Keighley’s ‘Man of the people’ by your fellow loyal Councillors. (I’d vote for you! Sorry Mick, now that is a lie!)
Mick, I've known you for thirty years, and you are well known throughout Keighley as a truly honest and upstanding citizen, ‘exemplary’ it was said of you by your close colleague Cllr Tony Wright. It is not a puzzle to me, that you, a man claiming sick pay was able, twice it seems, to load up ‘Grit Bins’ for Keighley Town Council. Ok so, even through you are paid expenses from KTC you still claimed another near £80 for doing this service, but it seems you loyally put your health further at risk by this unselfish act. I suggest your many loyal colleagues within the KTC hierarchy should appoint you as General Manager of the Civic Centre, with of course Cllr Mitchell, as your Public Relations confidant. The redoubtable Cllr Mitchell could answer the reasons why secrecy was needed to silence criticism regarding the finances of the Civic Centre when you, a known ‘exemplary’ public figure, long ago realised that being open and honest with the public was an easier way forward than the morass of public anger KTC now finds itself embroiled in. Come on Mick, in your own words of course, tell the public, in the Keighley News, of all the many lies which has been told about you and Keighley Town Council. It could counter the facts being bandied about by some members of the horrible Caveman Council regarding the reasons you and some of your honourable fellow Councillors are perceived to be loathed and detested. David Samuels Ps Is it true, you are to be appointed as Keighley’s ‘Man of the people’ by your fellow loyal Councillors. (I’d vote for you! Sorry Mick, now that is a lie!) samuels david
  • Score: 0

10:20am Mon 18 Mar 13

Kingchaser says...

So, Let me get this straight. Mr Westerman is saying that the council is brilliant because it 1. Provided four extra grit bins, 2. Bought a road sign, 3. Is talking to the bus company, 4. Listened to a suggestion of a path to the tarn ?

Wow, major achievements indeed!
So, Let me get this straight. Mr Westerman is saying that the council is brilliant because it 1. Provided four extra grit bins, 2. Bought a road sign, 3. Is talking to the bus company, 4. Listened to a suggestion of a path to the tarn ? Wow, major achievements indeed! Kingchaser
  • Score: 0

12:10pm Mon 18 Mar 13

The Chicken Lover says...

Kingchaser wrote:
So, Let me get this straight. Mr Westerman is saying that the council is brilliant because it 1. Provided four extra grit bins, 2. Bought a road sign, 3. Is talking to the bus company, 4. Listened to a suggestion of a path to the tarn ? Wow, major achievements indeed!
Tackling the REAL issues, that's the Town Council we know and love.
[quote][p][bold]Kingchaser[/bold] wrote: So, Let me get this straight. Mr Westerman is saying that the council is brilliant because it 1. Provided four extra grit bins, 2. Bought a road sign, 3. Is talking to the bus company, 4. Listened to a suggestion of a path to the tarn ? Wow, major achievements indeed![/p][/quote]Tackling the REAL issues, that's the Town Council we know and love. The Chicken Lover
  • Score: 0

10:12pm Mon 18 Mar 13

Flyin the ointment says...

Please tell us Mr westerman what lies have 'the website' been saying. Just name one. Or is the question too hard. Or are you making things up a you go along. Careful not answering will indicate that actually there have been no lies told...
Please tell us Mr westerman what lies have 'the website' been saying. Just name one. Or is the question too hard. Or are you making things up a you go along. Careful not answering will indicate that actually there have been no lies told... Flyin the ointment
  • Score: 0

10:21pm Mon 18 Mar 13

Flyin the ointment says...

There must be more than someone's statement that you councelors don't give a jot about... come on is that person not allowed a opinion after reading what the council has done wasting the public money on centers we don't need and won't use and horses to name 2. Go on other than the jot bit tell us put us straight. Oh and you are councelors are all wonderful we've been saddled with a massive debt for many many years to come.
There must be more than someone's statement that you councelors don't give a jot about... come on is that person not allowed a opinion after reading what the council has done wasting the public money on centers we don't need and won't use and horses to name 2. Go on other than the jot bit tell us put us straight. Oh and you are councelors are all wonderful we've been saddled with a massive debt for many many years to come. Flyin the ointment
  • Score: 0

12:08am Tue 19 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Mick, you are always stating you, as are all Councillors at Keighley Town Council, honourable people, and I believe Councillors are honourable, and I will go further,

I do not believe anybody in Council is seeking an O.B.E or some such award from Royalty for services to the community.

You have stated you tell only the truth, and I as you are sensitive regarding the debacle with Keighley Cougars, which all of Keighley is aware of, I will not make reference to it on this posting as Cllr Tony Wright and all your colleagues still have faith in your exemplary character.

Therefore Mick, explain the following.

A sum of £74,000 deficit in the Civic Centre accounts is mentioned in the Keighley News Opinion page this week.

With the greatest respect may I suggest the true sum, if ever acknowledged, will be nearer £236,000 and rising.

If you, or any member of the
many Keighley Town Council committees wishes to dispute these figures, then please publish, in the Keighley News, the full and true financial data of the profit and loss account of the Civic Centre.

Start from the date of the first official minuted documents of this ego trip foolishness, include all the expenses, legal and otherwise, include the Project Officer, his staff.

The cost of management time of the KTC Town Clerk and office expenses, the full cost of the implementation of all the ‘extras’ of additional building work, including the delays which KTC had to pay for etc.

Mick is my financial analysis, more or less, and if not will you validate your own figures?

I would hope the Town Clerk and her staff and all those concerned with the affairs of Keighley, that may or may not have occurred with regards to the Civic Centre will be in attendance on Thursday night, and will not find any reason what-so-ever for avoiding this public meeting, unless a medical certificate is produced.

As you will know Mick, ‘free’ refreshments are on offer.

(Well, not really free as the public will as usual be paying. (Free lunches at the Lord Rodney Public House in Keighley for contractors, (KTC Official Financial statements. Plus illegal car parking fines for the Project Officer. Again, KTC Official Financial statement.)

David Samuels
Mick, you are always stating you, as are all Councillors at Keighley Town Council, honourable people, and I believe Councillors are honourable, and I will go further, I do not believe anybody in Council is seeking an O.B.E or some such award from Royalty for services to the community. You have stated you tell only the truth, and I as you are sensitive regarding the debacle with Keighley Cougars, which all of Keighley is aware of, I will not make reference to it on this posting as Cllr Tony Wright and all your colleagues still have faith in your exemplary character. Therefore Mick, explain the following. A sum of £74,000 deficit in the Civic Centre accounts is mentioned in the Keighley News Opinion page this week. With the greatest respect may I suggest the true sum, if ever acknowledged, will be nearer £236,000 and rising. If you, or any member of the many Keighley Town Council committees wishes to dispute these figures, then please publish, in the Keighley News, the full and true financial data of the profit and loss account of the Civic Centre. Start from the date of the first official minuted documents of this ego trip foolishness, include all the expenses, legal and otherwise, include the Project Officer, his staff. The cost of management time of the KTC Town Clerk and office expenses, the full cost of the implementation of all the ‘extras’ of additional building work, including the delays which KTC had to pay for etc. Mick is my financial analysis, more or less, and if not will you validate your own figures? I would hope the Town Clerk and her staff and all those concerned with the affairs of Keighley, that may or may not have occurred with regards to the Civic Centre will be in attendance on Thursday night, and will not find any reason what-so-ever for avoiding this public meeting, unless a medical certificate is produced. As you will know Mick, ‘free’ refreshments are on offer. (Well, not really free as the public will as usual be paying. (Free lunches at the Lord Rodney Public House in Keighley for contractors, (KTC Official Financial statements. Plus illegal car parking fines for the Project Officer. Again, KTC Official Financial statement.) David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

8:15am Tue 19 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

In K.T.C's account covering total assets less current & long term liabilities, it gives a list of figures when added up K.T.C stated came to £1,191,105. When an independent person with accounting skills added the same column of figures it came to £1,110,665 which leaves a shortfall of £80,440. When this was pointed out to the town clerk the clerk replied the councils figures were correct.

This is now a matter of record held by Cavetown Council who can substantiate this, as they have the accounts showing this and the reply from the town clerk. That is not a lie, it is factual.

So Cllr Westerman, if K.T.C do care a jot about the people of Keighley, where is the £80, 440 difference?
In K.T.C's account covering total assets less current & long term liabilities, it gives a list of figures when added up K.T.C stated came to £1,191,105. When an independent person with accounting skills added the same column of figures it came to £1,110,665 which leaves a shortfall of £80,440. When this was pointed out to the town clerk the clerk replied the councils figures were correct. This is now a matter of record held by Cavetown Council who can substantiate this, as they have the accounts showing this and the reply from the town clerk. That is not a lie, it is factual. So Cllr Westerman, if K.T.C do care a jot about the people of Keighley, where is the £80, 440 difference? Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

11:34am Tue 19 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Mr Forsyth, whilst I am not a member of Cavetown Council, and so have no access to the facts and figures the group holds, I have more faith in the figures you present that those of Keighley Town Council.

However, my reservation of your figures remains.

With respect I suggest that it would seem that no sum in the Caveman financial calculations of the shortfall has taken into account all the other monies spent on propping up the Civic Centre disaster from its inception.
It could be, I believe, a ‘Smoke and mirror’ accounting method that may have possibly thrown off your colleagues, obviously when the full analysis of the financial sums involved in the Civic Centre affair is minutely examined then the three differing interpretations of how much money was wasted on the Civic Centre will be revealed.

Will it be that of KTC, Caveman Council, or my own examination of the reality of the information given out by KTC.

A final financial thought Mr Forsyth for Caveman to ponder.

Since 2002 when KTC was incorporated as a Parish/Town Council approximately £100,000 has been spent on socalled 'educational' and general ‘Conferences'. (Jollies in my view) and corresponding travelling and meals associated with these trips of learning’s. (Including the £400 grant to the Town Clerk on a trip to America.)

Mr Forsyth, £100, 000 spent, and are still spending with great gusto, whilst the Civic Centre is rapidly sinking in the detritus of debt.

Titanic, Nero, etc comes to mind when I look upon this KTC litany of stupidity.

David Samuels

ps Don't blame Mick for this
catastrophic.,
Mr Forsyth, whilst I am not a member of Cavetown Council, and so have no access to the facts and figures the group holds, I have more faith in the figures you present that those of Keighley Town Council. However, my reservation of your figures remains. With respect I suggest that it would seem that no sum in the Caveman financial calculations of the shortfall has taken into account all the other monies spent on propping up the Civic Centre disaster from its inception. It could be, I believe, a ‘Smoke and mirror’ accounting method that may have possibly thrown off your colleagues, obviously when the full analysis of the financial sums involved in the Civic Centre affair is minutely examined then the three differing interpretations of how much money was wasted on the Civic Centre will be revealed. Will it be that of KTC, Caveman Council, or my own examination of the reality of the information given out by KTC. A final financial thought Mr Forsyth for Caveman to ponder. Since 2002 when KTC was incorporated as a Parish/Town Council approximately £100,000 has been spent on socalled 'educational' and general ‘Conferences'. (Jollies in my view) and corresponding travelling and meals associated with these trips of learning’s. (Including the £400 grant to the Town Clerk on a trip to America.) Mr Forsyth, £100, 000 spent, and are still spending with great gusto, whilst the Civic Centre is rapidly sinking in the detritus of debt. Titanic, Nero, etc comes to mind when I look upon this KTC litany of stupidity. David Samuels ps Don't blame Mick for this catastrophic., samuels david
  • Score: 0

11:42am Tue 19 Mar 13

bantamcougar says...

KTC have also stated in print that Bradford Council would not have got the 2m heritage lottery money if they had not bought the old Police Station now the Civic Centre, the heritage lottery, have, also in print stated that is not and never was the case, they were getting the money anyway, explain that one !! Misprint or misinformation. ?
KTC have also stated in print that Bradford Council would not have got the 2m heritage lottery money if they had not bought the old Police Station now the Civic Centre, the heritage lottery, have, also in print stated that is not and never was the case, they were getting the money anyway, explain that one !! Misprint or misinformation. ? bantamcougar
  • Score: 0

11:48am Tue 19 Mar 13

samuels david says...

PPS,

Keighley Town Council in my own view having spent £100,000 have not only learnt nothing, but have proved that they have not got the intelligenge to ever learn.
Bradford was right not to let KTC to run the toilets.
PPS, Keighley Town Council in my own view having spent £100,000 have not only learnt nothing, but have proved that they have not got the intelligenge to ever learn. Bradford was right not to let KTC to run the toilets. samuels david
  • Score: 0

12:51pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

Bantamcougar you are correct. We can see what the parishioners of Keighley were told regarding this matter.

K.N. Thursday 13th October 2011 .£1M CENTRE IS ‘NOT WASTE OF PUBLIC MONEY’

“.... that Keighley’s public had already benefited from the civic centre project, because it played a key part in helping to secure Heritage Lottery Funding to restore other historic buildings in the town centre. “

K.N. Thursday 22nd July 2010 .Council is to borrow £1.1m for police site

“... abandoning the property could jeopardise Keighley Townscape Heritage’s bid to secure £2.79 million worth of lottery money to regenerate North Street.”

K.N. Friday 7th October 2011 .Anger at deal for old police station.

“... the scheme was an asset for Keighley and had helped the town council secure Heritage Lottery Funding to restore other historic buildings.”

As recently as the councils Spring magazine for 2013, it has been stated:

“Without Keighley Town Council having invested in the former police station, Bradford District Council would NOT have been able to access the important national lottery Townscape Heritage Funding..”

Cavetown Council investigated the claim and was told by the Head of Heritage Lottery Fund, Yorkshire and the Humber that:

“...the decision to purchase the former Police Station, now the Civic Centre, was entirely taken by the Town Council, and had no impact on the decision whether or not to award the THI grant.  The award was made on the basis of regeneration need, not on the ownership of the properties involved.  We would never require or encourage an applicant to make a speculative purchase in advance of an application.”


This is factual and can be substantiated and is held by Cavetown Council as a matter of record.

So who is it that gives a jot for the parishioners of Keighley?
 
Bantamcougar you are correct. We can see what the parishioners of Keighley were told regarding this matter. K.N. Thursday 13th October 2011 .£1M CENTRE IS ‘NOT WASTE OF PUBLIC MONEY’ “.... that Keighley’s public had already benefited from the civic centre project, because it played a key part in helping to secure Heritage Lottery Funding to restore other historic buildings in the town centre. “ K.N. Thursday 22nd July 2010 .Council is to borrow £1.1m for police site “... abandoning the property could jeopardise Keighley Townscape Heritage’s bid to secure £2.79 million worth of lottery money to regenerate North Street.” K.N. Friday 7th October 2011 .Anger at deal for old police station. “... the scheme was an asset for Keighley and had helped the town council secure Heritage Lottery Funding to restore other historic buildings.” As recently as the councils Spring magazine for 2013, it has been stated: “Without Keighley Town Council having invested in the former police station, Bradford District Council would NOT have been able to access the important national lottery Townscape Heritage Funding..” Cavetown Council investigated the claim and was told by the Head of Heritage Lottery Fund, Yorkshire and the Humber that: “...the decision to purchase the former Police Station, now the Civic Centre, was entirely taken by the Town Council, and had no impact on the decision whether or not to award the THI grant.  The award was made on the basis of regeneration need, not on the ownership of the properties involved.  We would never require or encourage an applicant to make a speculative purchase in advance of an application.” This is factual and can be substantiated and is held by Cavetown Council as a matter of record. So who is it that gives a jot for the parishioners of Keighley?   Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

1:09pm Tue 19 Mar 13

bantamcougar says...

I read that in the KTC newsletter and I believed it after all you should be able to trust an elected Council, how wrong can you be !! Thanks for the detailed information, has a council ever been declared bankrupt, this is a serious question
I read that in the KTC newsletter and I believed it after all you should be able to trust an elected Council, how wrong can you be !! Thanks for the detailed information, has a council ever been declared bankrupt, this is a serious question bantamcougar
  • Score: 0

3:30pm Tue 19 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Mr Forsyth, your comment, and those of others, regarding the story of Lottery Money which has been proved was not in any way contingent on the purchase of the Police Station as has been stated must be fully explained by the Town Council hierarchy and backed up by the Legal Responsible Officer, the Town Clerk on Thursday night as a matter of urgency.

That any Keighley Town Councillor could possibly ever tell a lie is unthinkable, as I am well aware all are known leading citizens of this town, and the stain and reputation they would incur would most certainly jeopardised O.B.Es in the offering for our honourable members of KTC.

bantamcougar,

Keighley Town Council can’t be declared bankrupt, but the court can and do surcharge those who have shown to have voted for such stupidity.

For instance, if one voted for a project that was demonstrated to have been grossly mishandled, then Parish Councillors could possibly be charged for backing a scheme judged to have been mishandled due to a lack of supervision.

Ps.

In a recent posting I made a comment which implied Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
My omnipotent, legal eagle, who remains verbally silent, has emailed me and I quote!

David . Sadly, your comparison to Nero is misplaced.
No need for alarm as this is
a common miss-conception.

Sadly the violin had not been invented in circa AD 60 whilst Nero was Emperor and residing in the Imperial Palace in the foothills of both the Aventine and Capitoline Hills in Rome.

Benefits of a classical education, old boy.

My reply.

It wasn’t a lie on my part Sir, just a little mistake which has cost Keighley Ratepayers nothing, but sorry never the less!


Ds
Mr Forsyth, your comment, and those of others, regarding the story of Lottery Money which has been proved was not in any way contingent on the purchase of the Police Station as has been stated must be fully explained by the Town Council hierarchy and backed up by the Legal Responsible Officer, the Town Clerk on Thursday night as a matter of urgency. That any Keighley Town Councillor could possibly ever tell a lie is unthinkable, as I am well aware all are known leading citizens of this town, and the stain and reputation they would incur would most certainly jeopardised O.B.Es in the offering for our honourable members of KTC. bantamcougar, Keighley Town Council can’t be declared bankrupt, but the court can and do surcharge those who have shown to have voted for such stupidity. For instance, if one voted for a project that was demonstrated to have been grossly mishandled, then Parish Councillors could possibly be charged for backing a scheme judged to have been mishandled due to a lack of supervision. Ps. In a recent posting I made a comment which implied Nero fiddled while Rome burned. My omnipotent, legal eagle, who remains verbally silent, has emailed me and I quote! David . Sadly, your comparison to Nero is misplaced. No need for alarm as this is a common miss-conception. Sadly the violin had not been invented in circa AD 60 whilst Nero was Emperor and residing in the Imperial Palace in the foothills of both the Aventine and Capitoline Hills in Rome. Benefits of a classical education, old boy. My reply. It wasn’t a lie on my part Sir, just a little mistake which has cost Keighley Ratepayers nothing, but sorry never the less! Ds samuels david
  • Score: 0

4:20pm Tue 19 Mar 13

billys says...

Michael Westerman, you yourself insulted this town by holding the position of Mayor knowing you were under investigation, and going to trial on charges the whole of keighley are aware of and found guilty. It also says a lot for the councillors nominating you for said position.
It has also been said that without the purchase of the old police station the lottery grant would have not been successful, this is not true, I feel betrayed that the grant would have been given without lumbering myself and this town with a debt that will last for the next 50yrs. On top of that, a 72% increase to the precept (salt in the wound). It was likened to the cost of a stamp by Mr Mitchell, well all I can say, if the cost of a stamp had increased by 72% there would have been a public outcry and rightly so.
People in this town are taking notice and the only way to win respect is being honest,upfront and stop the needless spending of what is not monopoly money but our hard earned cash.
I would also like to point out without the websites this would not have been brought to my notice. So a big thank you to all the people that have opened my eyes and hopefully also KTC are listening and taking note. BY that I mean tighten your budget, be truthful, something we all have to do in the real world, and stop making excuses that are found to be untrue.
Michael Westerman, you yourself insulted this town by holding the position of Mayor knowing you were under investigation, and going to trial on charges the whole of keighley are aware of and found guilty. It also says a lot for the councillors nominating you for said position. It has also been said that without the purchase of the old police station the lottery grant would have not been successful, this is not true, I feel betrayed that the grant would have been given without lumbering myself and this town with a debt that will last for the next 50yrs. On top of that, a 72% increase to the precept (salt in the wound). It was likened to the cost of a stamp by Mr Mitchell, well all I can say, if the cost of a stamp had increased by 72% there would have been a public outcry and rightly so. People in this town are taking notice and the only way to win respect is being honest,upfront and stop the needless spending of what is not monopoly money but our hard earned cash. I would also like to point out without the websites this would not have been brought to my notice. So a big thank you to all the people that have opened my eyes and hopefully also KTC are listening and taking note. BY that I mean tighten your budget, be truthful, something we all have to do in the real world, and stop making excuses that are found to be untrue. billys
  • Score: 0

4:47pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

Bantamcougar, it does appear as though K.T.C may have some explaining to do as the purchase of the old police station, and the civic centre project, was the basis on which the council took out a 1.1 million pound loan. This has to be paid back over fifty with interest, so we are looking at a substantial amount of money. K.T.C also used £110,000 from the sale of allotments on Skipton Road to add to the funds for the civic centre.

As to a council going bankrupt. The following may be of interest.

According to CPALC,Communities, Parish and Local Councils, in relation to the councils annual returns councillors are; “ jointly and severally liable for those declarations and undertakings.”

Anyone wishing to see this for themselves can do so by going to the CPALC website. It is all out there in the public domain and freely accessible

Further, Individually and collectively councillors are legally responsible for protecting taxpayers’ money and proper control of council’s finances.

This can also be read at the CPALC website

Some councillors accept they are exempt from any personal liability for any matter, however this is not so clear cut, as can be read here.

“If you ask any officer or councillor if they consider themselves to be immune, they will quite happily answer in the affirmative.  Indeed, most council solicitors advise their members that they have nothing to worry about.  For this reason council's often embark on major exercises of fraud or deception - and never admit to anything - until it's too late.  
 
However, according to Atkins Forms, the actual position is not so clear cut.  If a member or officer knows of wrongdoing, or a cover up, by keeping silent, they become party to the offence and culpable, hence liable - even if they didn't actually hide the facts themselves, doctor documents, give false testimony or acted negligently.  By condoning the impropriety of others they are equally to blame.
 
So, if you are an officer or a member of a council and suspect something is amiss, don't just look the other way.  The law holds that failing to make reasonable enquiries, because one is afraid of what may be discovered, is itself an act of negligence.  Corrupt officers will insist members should take their advice.  If you are given this advice, it's time to start worrying.”
 http://www.bushywo
od.com/members_liabi
lity.htm
Bantamcougar, it does appear as though K.T.C may have some explaining to do as the purchase of the old police station, and the civic centre project, was the basis on which the council took out a 1.1 million pound loan. This has to be paid back over fifty with interest, so we are looking at a substantial amount of money. K.T.C also used £110,000 from the sale of allotments on Skipton Road to add to the funds for the civic centre. As to a council going bankrupt. The following may be of interest. According to CPALC,Communities, Parish and Local Councils, in relation to the councils annual returns councillors are; “ jointly and severally liable for those declarations and undertakings.” Anyone wishing to see this for themselves can do so by going to the CPALC website. It is all out there in the public domain and freely accessible Further, Individually and collectively councillors are legally responsible for protecting taxpayers’ money and proper control of council’s finances. This can also be read at the CPALC website Some councillors accept they are exempt from any personal liability for any matter, however this is not so clear cut, as can be read here. “If you ask any officer or councillor if they consider themselves to be immune, they will quite happily answer in the affirmative.  Indeed, most council solicitors advise their members that they have nothing to worry about.  For this reason council's often embark on major exercises of fraud or deception - and never admit to anything - until it's too late.     However, according to Atkins Forms, the actual position is not so clear cut.  If a member or officer knows of wrongdoing, or a cover up, by keeping silent, they become party to the offence and culpable, hence liable - even if they didn't actually hide the facts themselves, doctor documents, give false testimony or acted negligently.  By condoning the impropriety of others they are equally to blame.   So, if you are an officer or a member of a council and suspect something is amiss, don't just look the other way.  The law holds that failing to make reasonable enquiries, because one is afraid of what may be discovered, is itself an act of negligence.  Corrupt officers will insist members should take their advice.  If you are given this advice, it's time to start worrying.”  http://www.bushywo od.com/members_liabi lity.htm Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

5:58pm Tue 19 Mar 13

cronk stanley says...

Councillor Westerman, If you read these posts, would you enlighten us as to these lies you speak about on this web. As a member of the public, it would be nice if you could put the record straight.

For example you say that on this web people have said that your council does not care about the folks in Keighley, can I respectfully ask you did your council care about the people of Keighley when it gambled over one million pounds of Keighley people's money on " Nightmare On North St" ?
Now Cllr, Your council stated that if your council had not purchased The Old Police Station. Bradford would not have been given the two million pound lottery grant, True or false ? Again respected councillor, a request, I will address you by your title, others seem reluctant to do so. As a member of Keighley Parish, May I have your answer please ?

O'h councillor ! your attention please ! Do not harp on about grit bins and road signs, not even footpaths to Keighley Tarn, footpaths, like these blooming grit bins are Bradford Met responsibility

Sorry councillor, one more question. Your council told us that the Old Police Station project would not cost the precept payer one penny, so why has the precept gone up to prop up your £74, 000 deficit ?
Councillor Westerman, If you read these posts, would you enlighten us as to these lies you speak about on this web. As a member of the public, it would be nice if you could put the record straight. For example you say that on this web people have said that your council does not care about the folks in Keighley, can I respectfully ask you did your council care about the people of Keighley when it gambled over one million pounds of Keighley people's money on " Nightmare On North St" ? Now Cllr, Your council stated that if your council had not purchased The Old Police Station. Bradford would not have been given the two million pound lottery grant, True or false ? Again respected councillor, a request, I will address you by your title, others seem reluctant to do so. As a member of Keighley Parish, May I have your answer please ? O'h councillor ! your attention please ! Do not harp on about grit bins and road signs, not even footpaths to Keighley Tarn, footpaths, like these blooming grit bins are Bradford Met responsibility Sorry councillor, one more question. Your council told us that the Old Police Station project would not cost the precept payer one penny, so why has the precept gone up to prop up your £74, 000 deficit ? cronk stanley
  • Score: 0

6:32pm Tue 19 Mar 13

samuels david says...

billys..

I will very surprised if any senior member of the KTC hierarchy turns up on Thursday to explain to the public the truth, as it’s difficult to know where to start with a truth.

I’ve always said that this particular truth will out and it will eventfully.

The fact the people responsible for this Civic Centre debacle may find other places to attend, even though they had long ago realized his Thursday was important for Keighley will prove my point, that I have been making for many a year, which is that the silence imposed by Keighley Town Council was not sustainable and in my view has caused more trouble than telling the truth.

One has to ask was the cost of the Civic Centre worth all the intrigue and problems in both financial and personal terms which a few members of Keighley Town Council caused, was it worth it?

The total distrust caused by the verbal and physical bullying I and others have been subjected to because of truth, principles and the right of Free Speech in public is shameful and must be eliminated.

Those of the hierarchy who decide to ‘Chicken’ out of the meeting should automatically, in my view, resign, as an honorable gesture, if only to salvage what little dignity they still may fitfully retain.

Thirty honorable town Councillors, including all those chairpersons of the Committees, the Mayor, the Deputy Mayor, the Town Clerk and the Deputy town Clerk, and Uncle Tom Cobly and all,’ please don’t embarrass Keighley further, turn up, no excuses as I and possibly others in Keighley and the West Riding may never believe other word you ever say.

Caveman Council your tenacity and professional approach in investigating this Civic centre madness needs applause, and receives mine without reservation.

Sadly I had stated long ago in this newspaper that the intelligenge level within KTC was not capable of creating a viable project from the old police station, nobody would listen to facts as they all believed in the spoon fed the fiction.

Savid Samuels
billys.. I will very surprised if any senior member of the KTC hierarchy turns up on Thursday to explain to the public the truth, as it’s difficult to know where to start with a truth. I’ve always said that this particular truth will out and it will eventfully. The fact the people responsible for this Civic Centre debacle may find other places to attend, even though they had long ago realized his Thursday was important for Keighley will prove my point, that I have been making for many a year, which is that the silence imposed by Keighley Town Council was not sustainable and in my view has caused more trouble than telling the truth. One has to ask was the cost of the Civic Centre worth all the intrigue and problems in both financial and personal terms which a few members of Keighley Town Council caused, was it worth it? The total distrust caused by the verbal and physical bullying I and others have been subjected to because of truth, principles and the right of Free Speech in public is shameful and must be eliminated. Those of the hierarchy who decide to ‘Chicken’ out of the meeting should automatically, in my view, resign, as an honorable gesture, if only to salvage what little dignity they still may fitfully retain. Thirty honorable town Councillors, including all those chairpersons of the Committees, the Mayor, the Deputy Mayor, the Town Clerk and the Deputy town Clerk, and Uncle Tom Cobly and all,’ please don’t embarrass Keighley further, turn up, no excuses as I and possibly others in Keighley and the West Riding may never believe other word you ever say. Caveman Council your tenacity and professional approach in investigating this Civic centre madness needs applause, and receives mine without reservation. Sadly I had stated long ago in this newspaper that the intelligenge level within KTC was not capable of creating a viable project from the old police station, nobody would listen to facts as they all believed in the spoon fed the fiction. Savid Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

9:03pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Flyin the ointment says...

Kris Hopkins Parish and Town Council Precepts (Referendums)



Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23)

1.46 pm


Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con):
I beg to move,

That leave be given to bring in a Bill to give effect to Schedule 5 of the Localism Act 2011; to amend section 52ZC of the Government Finance Act 1992 (inserted by that Schedule) to require parish and town councils to conduct local referendums in the event that they choose to increase their precept by 2% or more in the following financial year; and for connected purposes.

Before I came to the House, I had the great privilege of serving as a district councillor for the Worth Valley ward in Keighley. During my 13 years as a councillor, I got to know and respect many of my colleagues from across the political spectrum. I also had a good relationship with many colleagues on town and parish councils across the metropolitan district. Many individuals in the first tier of local government have given decades of public service, and I put on record my thanks for their unpaid and tireless efforts to do good in their communities with the aim of making them better places.

As Members will know, responsibility at parish and town council level is limited. Although they undertake an enormous amount of additional work, they have sole statutory responsibility only for allotments. However, with the support of district councils and other partners, parish councils have often taken on other responsibilities. One example is the excellent work undertaken by Keighley town council, which has taken over Keighley’s cenotaph and town hall square and done a tremendous job. I also cite the excellent consultation undertaken by Oxenhope and Addingham parish councils, which have done extensive, first-rate, highly competent work on planning and potential housing numbers. Finally, Silsden town council has a youth council that has been making a contribution to youth provision in the town, driven by motivated, thoughtful and determined young people doing their bit for where they live.

However, there is a “but”. While I fully support all this work and commend it to others, I question the actions of a few councils. Hawarth, Cross Roads and Stanbury council, and Keighley town council, have raised their precept in recent weeks by 60% and 73% respectively. In the case of Hawarth, Cross Roads and Stanbury council, the argument in favour of such a rise appears to be that the Secretary of State might cap such a rise next year, so it has decided to bank it this year. There are no firm spending intentions, but the council has taken the money without holding a meaningful debate with residents. I acknowledge that it has good ideas in the pipeline, which may merit future increases in the precept, but residents have been taxed for ideas, and I think that residents should pay for services.

Keighley town council has interpreted localism as an opportunity to empire-build. Bearing in mind the fact that its sole responsibility under statute is for allotments, it has taken it upon itself to purchase the old police station in Keighley and offer the town a new civic centre at a cost of £1 million, despite the fact that the town already has a town hall and a brand new community centre within 400 yards of the civic centre. Sadly, the business plan does not service the debt that has been incurred, so residents have to pay a 72.6% increase in the precept. This is a shambles, and it is of the council’s own making. Rather than sting local residents, it should look at its overheads, and address staffing levels and its transport bill, rather than impose an extra burden on hard-pressed families.


Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD):
Will my hon. Friend give way?


Kris Hopkins:
No.

I want to touch on the false assertion that these are only small amounts of money, and are not important. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) has fought an effective campaign on a 1p increase on a litre of petrol. There are 2,494 pennies in the council precept in Keighley. Parish and town councils do not have an accountable body, so we have a duty to ensure that the public have a say in any rise in the precept, and a clear understanding of why that rise has been introduced. Many people are struggling, and we should make every effort, however small individually, to reduce the demands on the household purse. I urge the House to support the Bill and give a clear voice to residents who face a rise of more than 2% in their council tax.

Question put and agreed to.

Ordered,

That Kris Hopkins, Dr Thérèse Coffey, Stuart Andrew, Alec Shelbrooke, Craig Whittaker, Simon Reevell and Julian Smith present the Bill.

Kris Hopkins accordingly presented the Bill.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 26 April, and to be printed (Bill 151).

earlier today, please note what OUR MP SAYS ABOUT KEIGHLEY COUNCIL...COUNCILORS TAKE NOTE. MAYOR THIS IS ON YOUR WATCH.
Kris Hopkins Parish and Town Council Precepts (Referendums) Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23) 1.46 pm Kris Hopkins (Keighley) (Con): I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to give effect to Schedule 5 of the Localism Act 2011; to amend section 52ZC of the Government Finance Act 1992 (inserted by that Schedule) to require parish and town councils to conduct local referendums in the event that they choose to increase their precept by 2% or more in the following financial year; and for connected purposes. Before I came to the House, I had the great privilege of serving as a district councillor for the Worth Valley ward in Keighley. During my 13 years as a councillor, I got to know and respect many of my colleagues from across the political spectrum. I also had a good relationship with many colleagues on town and parish councils across the metropolitan district. Many individuals in the first tier of local government have given decades of public service, and I put on record my thanks for their unpaid and tireless efforts to do good in their communities with the aim of making them better places. As Members will know, responsibility at parish and town council level is limited. Although they undertake an enormous amount of additional work, they have sole statutory responsibility only for allotments. However, with the support of district councils and other partners, parish councils have often taken on other responsibilities. One example is the excellent work undertaken by Keighley town council, which has taken over Keighley’s cenotaph and town hall square and done a tremendous job. I also cite the excellent consultation undertaken by Oxenhope and Addingham parish councils, which have done extensive, first-rate, highly competent work on planning and potential housing numbers. Finally, Silsden town council has a youth council that has been making a contribution to youth provision in the town, driven by motivated, thoughtful and determined young people doing their bit for where they live. However, there is a “but”. While I fully support all this work and commend it to others, I question the actions of a few councils. Hawarth, Cross Roads and Stanbury council, and Keighley town council, have raised their precept in recent weeks by 60% and 73% respectively. In the case of Hawarth, Cross Roads and Stanbury council, the argument in favour of such a rise appears to be that the Secretary of State might cap such a rise next year, so it has decided to bank it this year. There are no firm spending intentions, but the council has taken the money without holding a meaningful debate with residents. I acknowledge that it has good ideas in the pipeline, which may merit future increases in the precept, but residents have been taxed for ideas, and I think that residents should pay for services. Keighley town council has interpreted localism as an opportunity to empire-build. Bearing in mind the fact that its sole responsibility under statute is for allotments, it has taken it upon itself to purchase the old police station in Keighley and offer the town a new civic centre at a cost of £1 million, despite the fact that the town already has a town hall and a brand new community centre within 400 yards of the civic centre. Sadly, the business plan does not service the debt that has been incurred, so residents have to pay a 72.6% increase in the precept. This is a shambles, and it is of the council’s own making. Rather than sting local residents, it should look at its overheads, and address staffing levels and its transport bill, rather than impose an extra burden on hard-pressed families. Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Will my hon. Friend give way? Kris Hopkins: No. I want to touch on the false assertion that these are only small amounts of money, and are not important. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) has fought an effective campaign on a 1p increase on a litre of petrol. There are 2,494 pennies in the council precept in Keighley. Parish and town councils do not have an accountable body, so we have a duty to ensure that the public have a say in any rise in the precept, and a clear understanding of why that rise has been introduced. Many people are struggling, and we should make every effort, however small individually, to reduce the demands on the household purse. I urge the House to support the Bill and give a clear voice to residents who face a rise of more than 2% in their council tax. Question put and agreed to. Ordered, That Kris Hopkins, Dr Thérèse Coffey, Stuart Andrew, Alec Shelbrooke, Craig Whittaker, Simon Reevell and Julian Smith present the Bill. Kris Hopkins accordingly presented the Bill. Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 26 April, and to be printed (Bill 151). earlier today, please note what OUR MP SAYS ABOUT KEIGHLEY COUNCIL...COUNCILORS TAKE NOTE. MAYOR THIS IS ON YOUR WATCH. Flyin the ointment
  • Score: 0

9:35pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Flyin the ointment says...

Councelor Westerman Is The MP telling lies too?? Come on councelors wake up!
Councelor Westerman Is The MP telling lies too?? Come on councelors wake up! Flyin the ointment
  • Score: 0

9:42pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

Many of us said the 72.6% precept hike was unjustifiable. Our MP agreed, and now a Bill has been introduced into the House of Commons. If this goes all the way it will make sure no parish or town council levy a high precept ever again without first asking the parishioners.

K.T.C has brought this upon itself. It has nothing to do with council detractors , it has everything to do with fairness and democracy.
Many of us said the 72.6% precept hike was unjustifiable. Our MP agreed, and now a Bill has been introduced into the House of Commons. If this goes all the way it will make sure no parish or town council levy a high precept ever again without first asking the parishioners. K.T.C has brought this upon itself. It has nothing to do with council detractors , it has everything to do with fairness and democracy. Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

9:54pm Tue 19 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23)

How shameful some Keighley Town Councillors have dragged this town into the national gutter, resulting in a Bill being laid before Parliament stopping further increases of any precept without public say so.

What in effect has happened was an inevitable consequence of the stupidity of the wild spending spree which was immoral to say the least.

The one off high precept tax the KTC have forced through will just about pay off this years loss on the Civic Centre.

Next year drastic cuts may possibly mean the Keys to the Civic Centre will have to be handed back to the bankers,

The Council hierarchy is a disgrace, and should all resign today and Bradford install competence in the running of KTC.

I believe KTC have done more than enough damage, which will take many years of honest straight forward effort just to clear up the mess which has been created.

The KT council hierarchy in my view has in all intents, bankrupted this town.

Great changes are needed if payments for items such as presents to other out of country Parish and Town Councils are not to rise.

Salaries, booze, and food feest will continue, grit bins, and travel cost and meals expenses will most certainly not be cut, but as usual with this Town Council it will be the paying public who will carry on paying.
.
The arrogance has at last been laid bare and Keighley people need all the top staff of KTC to present themselves on Thursday, no more excuses, explain yourselves or leave for another job!

David Samuels
Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order No. 23) How shameful some Keighley Town Councillors have dragged this town into the national gutter, resulting in a Bill being laid before Parliament stopping further increases of any precept without public say so. What in effect has happened was an inevitable consequence of the stupidity of the wild spending spree which was immoral to say the least. The one off high precept tax the KTC have forced through will just about pay off this years loss on the Civic Centre. Next year drastic cuts may possibly mean the Keys to the Civic Centre will have to be handed back to the bankers, The Council hierarchy is a disgrace, and should all resign today and Bradford install competence in the running of KTC. I believe KTC have done more than enough damage, which will take many years of honest straight forward effort just to clear up the mess which has been created. The KT council hierarchy in my view has in all intents, bankrupted this town. Great changes are needed if payments for items such as presents to other out of country Parish and Town Councils are not to rise. Salaries, booze, and food feest will continue, grit bins, and travel cost and meals expenses will most certainly not be cut, but as usual with this Town Council it will be the paying public who will carry on paying. . The arrogance has at last been laid bare and Keighley people need all the top staff of KTC to present themselves on Thursday, no more excuses, explain yourselves or leave for another job! David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

10:33pm Tue 19 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

why do you insist on saying cllr westerman these FB cavetown council are telling lies. i for 1 would like you to show the rest of us that they are wrong in what they say. seems to me that they are not. some of the comments on here show that what they say is the real truth and that the council is mis leading its parishoners and electorate is this not true? i have read with interest the bill that Kris Hopkins MP is putting through it is totally unacceptable for a town council to spend money in this manor and raise the precept on the offchance of being capped, you as a council are surely going to make that happen now .
i understand from reading other posts that the town clerk will not be attending the council meeting on thursday why? after all it is the annual K.T.C meeting that you have to do by law but as stated in your magazine you undertake willingly surely this makes a mockery of the whole thing because as i see it the clerk is a key player and holds a lot of answers. please don't mock your electorate as they have the means to bite back
why do you insist on saying cllr westerman these FB cavetown council are telling lies. i for 1 would like you to show the rest of us that they are wrong in what they say. seems to me that they are not. some of the comments on here show that what they say is the real truth and that the council is mis leading its parishoners and electorate is this not true? i have read with interest the bill that Kris Hopkins MP is putting through it is totally unacceptable for a town council to spend money in this manor and raise the precept on the offchance of being capped, you as a council are surely going to make that happen now . i understand from reading other posts that the town clerk will not be attending the council meeting on thursday why? after all it is the annual K.T.C meeting that you have to do by law but as stated in your magazine you undertake willingly surely this makes a mockery of the whole thing because as i see it the clerk is a key player and holds a lot of answers. please don't mock your electorate as they have the means to bite back shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

7:45am Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

Wow! I go away traveling round the USA for a few weeks and as soon as I'm gone here you all are having a party without me! Still better late than never, right? Hey! Jimmy! Stevo! Party over here! I'll grab the beers if you two bring the pies, don't be long though - the fireworks will be going off soon :-)
Wow! I go away traveling round the USA for a few weeks and as soon as I'm gone here you all are having a party without me! Still better late than never, right? Hey! Jimmy! Stevo! Party over here! I'll grab the beers if you two bring the pies, don't be long though - the fireworks will be going off soon :-) Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

7:51am Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

shshsoquiet what you say is one hundred percent correct.

Some members of Keighley Town Council have assumed they can dictate who says what and why.

They seem to have no grip on the reality of the situation they have caused, and then, if true, decide that a weekend trip at ratepayers expense will let them off the hook, again if true ,what arrogance!

All Councillors were elected to serve the people of Keighley, not their own vanities.

They are the people who decide who goes on trips or not. In these self inflicted troubled times the KT Councillors should assert the right of demanding all staff attend the once in a year meeting and not be able to duck out of answering question that may, or may not be put to them by the paying public, those people remember who pay for the lifestyle of those it employs.

Once again I will ask the KTC hierarchy, other than bankrupt the town, what benefit has the £100000 spent of the weekend ‘jollies’ achieve.

shshsoquiet keep on making your voice heard if you wish to advance Freedom of Speech which it seems some members of KTC wish to steal our rights from us, and those who steal should apologise or pay the price of being humiliated.

David Samuels ,
shshsoquiet what you say is one hundred percent correct. Some members of Keighley Town Council have assumed they can dictate who says what and why. They seem to have no grip on the reality of the situation they have caused, and then, if true, decide that a weekend trip at ratepayers expense will let them off the hook, again if true ,what arrogance! All Councillors were elected to serve the people of Keighley, not their own vanities. They are the people who decide who goes on trips or not. In these self inflicted troubled times the KT Councillors should assert the right of demanding all staff attend the once in a year meeting and not be able to duck out of answering question that may, or may not be put to them by the paying public, those people remember who pay for the lifestyle of those it employs. Once again I will ask the KTC hierarchy, other than bankrupt the town, what benefit has the £100000 spent of the weekend ‘jollies’ achieve. shshsoquiet keep on making your voice heard if you wish to advance Freedom of Speech which it seems some members of KTC wish to steal our rights from us, and those who steal should apologise or pay the price of being humiliated. David Samuels , samuels david
  • Score: 0

8:50am Wed 20 Mar 13

cronk stanley says...

TO COUNCILLOR WESTERMAN.

Would you please reply as requested,in my posting, pointing out these lies you speak about on that web.

It is only right and proper that the Keighley electorate know the truth.

Your answer to my request in my previous post would be appreciated.
TO COUNCILLOR WESTERMAN. Would you please reply as requested,in my posting, pointing out these lies you speak about on that web. It is only right and proper that the Keighley electorate know the truth. Your answer to my request in my previous post would be appreciated. cronk stanley
  • Score: 0

8:52am Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Be aware, the now, inconsequential but, no policy or debate pie and beer storm troopers are seemingly aiming to come to the defence of its masters.

Don’t let these people once
again take over the thread of this site as is usual for these people.

Keep the thread, ignore the threats.

Remember, the Keighley hierarchy are to make the excuse questions cannot be answered because the top people are away on a more important weekend than talking to the Keighley public.

A sign of what?

David Samuels
Be aware, the now, inconsequential but, no policy or debate pie and beer storm troopers are seemingly aiming to come to the defence of its masters. Don’t let these people once again take over the thread of this site as is usual for these people. Keep the thread, ignore the threats. Remember, the Keighley hierarchy are to make the excuse questions cannot be answered because the top people are away on a more important weekend than talking to the Keighley public. A sign of what? David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

8:57am Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

Anyone else support the local event, at East Riddlesden Hall at the weekend? Apparently there were plenty of products to sample...
Anyone else support the local event, at East Riddlesden Hall at the weekend? Apparently there were plenty of products to sample... Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

9:09am Wed 20 Mar 13

cronk stanley says...

Also respected councillor, you claim that you and your colleagues are being insulted.

So Councillor Westerman, what do you expect ? A big pat on the back ?

You and your colleagues told us, the Keighley Public that the Civic Centre would not cost us a penny, and now a 72% precept hike to prop up this incompetence ?

Come on councillor, be fair, you and your colleagues are getting away lightly, if all that you are getting are insults.

All those who voted for this madness, should be charged through their bank accounts.

Think yourselves lucky it's only insults, never the less, would you answer my questions in my previous post please ?
Also respected councillor, you claim that you and your colleagues are being insulted. So Councillor Westerman, what do you expect ? A big pat on the back ? You and your colleagues told us, the Keighley Public that the Civic Centre would not cost us a penny, and now a 72% precept hike to prop up this incompetence ? Come on councillor, be fair, you and your colleagues are getting away lightly, if all that you are getting are insults. All those who voted for this madness, should be charged through their bank accounts. Think yourselves lucky it's only insults, never the less, would you answer my questions in my previous post please ? cronk stanley
  • Score: 0

9:10am Wed 20 Mar 13

cronk stanley says...

Also respected councillor, you claim that you and your colleagues are being insulted.

So Councillor Westerman, what do you expect ? A big pat on the back ?

You and your colleagues told us, the Keighley Public that the Civic Centre would not cost us a penny, and now a 72% precept hike to prop up this incompetence ?

Come on councillor, be fair, you and your colleagues are getting away lightly, if all that you are getting are insults.

All those who voted for this madness, should be charged through their bank accounts.

Think yourselves lucky it's only insults, never the less, would you answer my questions in my previous post please ?
Also respected councillor, you claim that you and your colleagues are being insulted. So Councillor Westerman, what do you expect ? A big pat on the back ? You and your colleagues told us, the Keighley Public that the Civic Centre would not cost us a penny, and now a 72% precept hike to prop up this incompetence ? Come on councillor, be fair, you and your colleagues are getting away lightly, if all that you are getting are insults. All those who voted for this madness, should be charged through their bank accounts. Think yourselves lucky it's only insults, never the less, would you answer my questions in my previous post please ? cronk stanley
  • Score: 0

9:12am Wed 20 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

I think it would only be fair that we are given clarity on who will attend the meeting from the council .
It would be fair to say that in years gone by K.T.C stayed within its statute and the electorate had no reason to question there integrity and ability to run the allotments and the square of keighley and I will concur with his right honerable kris Hopkins mp on that point . But KTC you have stepped over the mark and borrowed and spent vast's amount of monies to which by the looks of it(and I will myself be asking why) was not your place to do so . Now the electorate having to find even more money to prop up these Grand schemes are unhappy and I'm sorry sirs but you are treating us with nothing more than contempt !
I think it would only be fair that we are given clarity on who will attend the meeting from the council . It would be fair to say that in years gone by K.T.C stayed within its statute and the electorate had no reason to question there integrity and ability to run the allotments and the square of keighley and I will concur with his right honerable kris Hopkins mp on that point . But KTC you have stepped over the mark and borrowed and spent vast's amount of monies to which by the looks of it(and I will myself be asking why) was not your place to do so . Now the electorate having to find even more money to prop up these Grand schemes are unhappy and I'm sorry sirs but you are treating us with nothing more than contempt ! shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

10:21am Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

shshsoquiet

It seems to me that arrogance, incompetence, lack of intellectual skills in financial and communication management, manipulative superciliousness, coupled with an over bearing dictatorial pomposity has brought together all the ingredients of a calamitous Town Council.

That it has not been confirmed if the most important element of the Council, the Town Clerk and the Deputy Mayor will be in attendance on Thursday shows, to me at least, how little the Keighley Town Council hierarchy values democracy.

Is the Town Clerk hiding from answering questions I ask myself, or has she been ordered not to make an appearance, as the lady may well have to tell the truth and thus compromise those responsible for the Civic Centre and the devastation of Keighley’s good name.

Obviously the truth will out in the future, but in my view, the sooner the truth is told the sooner the Keighley wound would heal and present reputations may possibly be salvaged and those in power at Keighley Town Council will not be talked about in the Streets shops and pubs with the disgust that they are at present.

David Samuels
shshsoquiet It seems to me that arrogance, incompetence, lack of intellectual skills in financial and communication management, manipulative superciliousness, coupled with an over bearing dictatorial pomposity has brought together all the ingredients of a calamitous Town Council. That it has not been confirmed if the most important element of the Council, the Town Clerk and the Deputy Mayor will be in attendance on Thursday shows, to me at least, how little the Keighley Town Council hierarchy values democracy. Is the Town Clerk hiding from answering questions I ask myself, or has she been ordered not to make an appearance, as the lady may well have to tell the truth and thus compromise those responsible for the Civic Centre and the devastation of Keighley’s good name. Obviously the truth will out in the future, but in my view, the sooner the truth is told the sooner the Keighley wound would heal and present reputations may possibly be salvaged and those in power at Keighley Town Council will not be talked about in the Streets shops and pubs with the disgust that they are at present. David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

10:29am Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

shshsoquiet

It seems to me that arrogance, incompetence, lack of intellectual skills in financial and communication management, manipulative superciliousness, coupled with an over bearing dictatorial pomposity has brought together all the ingredients of a calamitous Town Council.

That it has not been confirmed if the most important element of the Council, the Town Clerk and the Deputy Mayor will be in attendance on Thursday shows, to me at least, how little the Keighley Town Council hierarchy values democracy.

Is the Town Clerk hiding from answering questions I ask myself, or has she been ordered not to make an appearance, as the lady may well have to tell the truth and thus compromise those responsible for the Civic Centre and the devastation of Keighley’s good name.

Obviously the truth will out in the future, that the reality of that comment has not yet registered in KTC proves to me the lack of cognistant reasoning, in my view, the sooner the truth is told the sooner Keighley wound would heal and present reputations may possibly be salvaged and those in power at Keighley Town Council will not be talked about with the disgust that they are at present.

Time is running out KTC, will you allow the important elements of KTC to appear or be once accused of manipulating the Keighley Public?

David Samuels
shshsoquiet It seems to me that arrogance, incompetence, lack of intellectual skills in financial and communication management, manipulative superciliousness, coupled with an over bearing dictatorial pomposity has brought together all the ingredients of a calamitous Town Council. That it has not been confirmed if the most important element of the Council, the Town Clerk and the Deputy Mayor will be in attendance on Thursday shows, to me at least, how little the Keighley Town Council hierarchy values democracy. Is the Town Clerk hiding from answering questions I ask myself, or has she been ordered not to make an appearance, as the lady may well have to tell the truth and thus compromise those responsible for the Civic Centre and the devastation of Keighley’s good name. Obviously the truth will out in the future, that the reality of that comment has not yet registered in KTC proves to me the lack of cognistant reasoning, in my view, the sooner the truth is told the sooner Keighley wound would heal and present reputations may possibly be salvaged and those in power at Keighley Town Council will not be talked about with the disgust that they are at present. Time is running out KTC, will you allow the important elements of KTC to appear or be once accused of manipulating the Keighley Public? David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

10:55am Wed 20 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

David Samuels
I believe the mayor and the chairpersons of each committee will be in attendance but not the town clerk .
I wonder would the prime minister have a money matters meeting without the support of the chancellor I think not
Utter contempt sir utter contempt
David Samuels I believe the mayor and the chairpersons of each committee will be in attendance but not the town clerk . I wonder would the prime minister have a money matters meeting without the support of the chancellor I think not Utter contempt sir utter contempt shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

1:48pm Wed 20 Mar 13

bantamcougar says...

Surely the meeting must be opened and adjourned until such time that the Town Clerk is available to attend and answer questions
Surely the meeting must be opened and adjourned until such time that the Town Clerk is available to attend and answer questions bantamcougar
  • Score: 0

2:16pm Wed 20 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

Bantamcougar it all depends if the town clerk has more training to do as I have been informed from someone this morning that that Is the reason why she can not attend this meeting.
Bad management bad timing or contempt we all know training courses are booked in advance and the KTC arranged this date for this meeting perhaps a airy check would of been appropriate.
I've also been informed that the meeting will be closed if the questions are to much . Make of that what you wish.
Bantamcougar it all depends if the town clerk has more training to do as I have been informed from someone this morning that that Is the reason why she can not attend this meeting. Bad management bad timing or contempt we all know training courses are booked in advance and the KTC arranged this date for this meeting perhaps a airy check would of been appropriate. I've also been informed that the meeting will be closed if the questions are to much . Make of that what you wish. shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

2:26pm Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Talking to a Keighley Town Council hierarchy contact an hour ago, I was informed that Mrs Bailey could not attend the Town Hall meeting, as a more important Conference needed her attention! (Answering Keighley public enquires in this critical period is obviously not as important.)

So members of the hierarchy can breathe for the moment, a collective sigh of relief.

However as in all matters unless the issues are sorted the self inflicted growing abscess, as in this case, I believe will cause even further problems.

Basically from further information, I gather that the Town Clerk is ‘pleased’ she does not have to answer questions on Thursday, and no, the lady is not going to resign, at present!

In my view such is the low level of intelligenge within KTC none can see they must stop digging this gigantic incompetent hole for themselves, or they will drown in their own detritus!

banatamcougar, the last thing I believe the KTC hierarchy would wish for, is that the Town Clerk
answers questions, otherwise, in my view, for them, all is lost, and consequently the chance of any reputations being salvaged will die, and reputations, it seems are worth more than Keighley.

I could be proved wrong however, and honour may at the last moment prevail.
(As it does in an American film, but don’t hold your breath!)

David Samuels
Talking to a Keighley Town Council hierarchy contact an hour ago, I was informed that Mrs Bailey could not attend the Town Hall meeting, as a more important Conference needed her attention! (Answering Keighley public enquires in this critical period is obviously not as important.) So members of the hierarchy can breathe for the moment, a collective sigh of relief. However as in all matters unless the issues are sorted the self inflicted growing abscess, as in this case, I believe will cause even further problems. Basically from further information, I gather that the Town Clerk is ‘pleased’ she does not have to answer questions on Thursday, and no, the lady is not going to resign, at present! In my view such is the low level of intelligenge within KTC none can see they must stop digging this gigantic incompetent hole for themselves, or they will drown in their own detritus! banatamcougar, the last thing I believe the KTC hierarchy would wish for, is that the Town Clerk answers questions, otherwise, in my view, for them, all is lost, and consequently the chance of any reputations being salvaged will die, and reputations, it seems are worth more than Keighley. I could be proved wrong however, and honour may at the last moment prevail. (As it does in an American film, but don’t hold your breath!) David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

2:36pm Wed 20 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

Perhaps you should ask a little more David Samuels as to the type of conference that requires urgent attention. To my knowledge it is one that takes place every year and there is a place for 4 of KTC to go.
What you would call your proverbial get together.
So while keighley drowns in debt the councillors have a knees up.
Contempt sir contempt
Perhaps you should ask a little more David Samuels as to the type of conference that requires urgent attention. To my knowledge it is one that takes place every year and there is a place for 4 of KTC to go. What you would call your proverbial get together. So while keighley drowns in debt the councillors have a knees up. Contempt sir contempt shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

2:45pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

shshsoquiet = dave
shshsoquiet = dave Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

2:51pm Wed 20 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

I'm afraid the little green man if you are implying I am a person with a name of Dave you are very sadly mistaken.
To enlighten you ,you no not of me for I am an upstanding citizen of keighley and I have watched and waited until this time has come , and now and only now am I happy to voice my own opinion about this uncaring town council, and you sir treat this as a joke..
I'm afraid the little green man if you are implying I am a person with a name of Dave you are very sadly mistaken. To enlighten you ,you no not of me for I am an upstanding citizen of keighley and I have watched and waited until this time has come , and now and only now am I happy to voice my own opinion about this uncaring town council, and you sir treat this as a joke.. shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

3:06pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

dave = shshsoquiet
dave = shshsoquiet Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

3:59pm Wed 20 Mar 13

shshsoquiet says...

To ignore is bliss to react is an excuse
What's yours ???
It is highly unlikely that the cllr is going to enlighten us on these accusations. I sincerely hope he can tomorrow evening I wait with bated breath till the Moro sir may all the townsfolks questions be answered
To ignore is bliss to react is an excuse What's yours ??? It is highly unlikely that the cllr is going to enlighten us on these accusations. I sincerely hope he can tomorrow evening I wait with bated breath till the Moro sir may all the townsfolks questions be answered shshsoquiet
  • Score: 0

6:42pm Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Shshsoquiet, every court has a Muppet to laugh at, not with, and in my view Little Green Man is the KTC’s Muppet.

This particular Muppet has a fixation that anybody who speaks the truth about any subject is a copy of myself,

Such an obsession, whilst sad, proves to me how desperate KTC are to recruit like minded subjects who do not have the ability to think or debate independently.

Unfortunately, I believe, the majority of the hierarchy within KTC are tarred with the same affliction, however it does save these people thinking for themselves, a task,

I believe they are incapable of doing.


Meat pies or jugs of beer, nothing wrong with meat pies or beer, but when the debate is on principles, honesty, trying to stop a debate by bring in a superfluous subject such as the aforementioned food and drink I believe is not sensible or constructive way of conducting any serious discussion.

Nevertheless, Little Green Man has created a swell of revulsion for the antics of Keighley Town Council and made many people, worldwide examine the practices of the imbecilic hierarchy of the Keighley Town Council.

Remember also if their weren’t Muppets such as Little Green Man, where else would KTC recruit the troops.

An ill wind perhaps?
Now Little Green Man, take your medication, and try to sleep.

You’ve a big day tomorrow!



David Samuels
Shshsoquiet, every court has a Muppet to laugh at, not with, and in my view Little Green Man is the KTC’s Muppet. This particular Muppet has a fixation that anybody who speaks the truth about any subject is a copy of myself, Such an obsession, whilst sad, proves to me how desperate KTC are to recruit like minded subjects who do not have the ability to think or debate independently. Unfortunately, I believe, the majority of the hierarchy within KTC are tarred with the same affliction, however it does save these people thinking for themselves, a task, I believe they are incapable of doing. Meat pies or jugs of beer, nothing wrong with meat pies or beer, but when the debate is on principles, honesty, trying to stop a debate by bring in a superfluous subject such as the aforementioned food and drink I believe is not sensible or constructive way of conducting any serious discussion. Nevertheless, Little Green Man has created a swell of revulsion for the antics of Keighley Town Council and made many people, worldwide examine the practices of the imbecilic hierarchy of the Keighley Town Council. Remember also if their weren’t Muppets such as Little Green Man, where else would KTC recruit the troops. An ill wind perhaps? Now Little Green Man, take your medication, and try to sleep. You’ve a big day tomorrow! David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

6:59pm Wed 20 Mar 13

cronk stanley says...

shshsoquiet wrote:
I'm afraid the little green man if you are implying I am a person with a name of Dave you are very sadly mistaken. To enlighten you ,you no not of me for I am an upstanding citizen of keighley and I have watched and waited until this time has come , and now and only now am I happy to voice my own opinion about this uncaring town council, and you sir treat this as a joke..
Ignore Green Man, Every one who has concerns about this toy town council is David Samuels.

Cllr Westerman, answer my questions please ! the electorate need answers, not more flaming grit bins !
[quote][p][bold]shshsoquiet[/bold] wrote: I'm afraid the little green man if you are implying I am a person with a name of Dave you are very sadly mistaken. To enlighten you ,you no not of me for I am an upstanding citizen of keighley and I have watched and waited until this time has come , and now and only now am I happy to voice my own opinion about this uncaring town council, and you sir treat this as a joke..[/p][/quote]Ignore Green Man, Every one who has concerns about this toy town council is David Samuels. Cllr Westerman, answer my questions please ! the electorate need answers, not more flaming grit bins ! cronk stanley
  • Score: 0

7:00pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

shhDave, your selective memory loss is playing you up again my friend, or maybe your lack of education caused you to misread my first post this week? Unfortunately I'm busy working in the USA at the moment so I won't be able to attend your little soiree - not that I would anyway I've told you many times that I've no interest in KTC and I don't even live in Keighley. Now that is the truth I know that since I'm the one here sat in a beachside bar in LA drinking a cold one and waiting for my steak sandwich. I hope you have a nice time there shhDave and I really hope you get what you want :)
shhDave, your selective memory loss is playing you up again my friend, or maybe your lack of education caused you to misread my first post this week? Unfortunately I'm busy working in the USA at the moment so I won't be able to attend your little soiree - not that I would anyway I've told you many times that I've no interest in KTC and I don't even live in Keighley. Now that is the truth I know that since I'm the one here sat in a beachside bar in LA drinking a cold one and waiting for my steak sandwich. I hope you have a nice time there shhDave and I really hope you get what you want :) Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

7:04pm Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Ps shshsoquiet:

Please note.

The term Muppet was not bestowed on Little Green Man by me, as I have another, much more sympathetic name for LGM.

I have a concern for the wellbeing of the character, LGM, no the name was placed on LGM’s head by another person without my forgiving and understanding nature.

David Samuels
Ps shshsoquiet: Please note. The term Muppet was not bestowed on Little Green Man by me, as I have another, much more sympathetic name for LGM. I have a concern for the wellbeing of the character, LGM, no the name was placed on LGM’s head by another person without my forgiving and understanding nature. David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

7:17pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

Yeah you had a good name for me shhDave but I guess you forgot it like the names of all your aliases :)
Yeah you had a good name for me shhDave but I guess you forgot it like the names of all your aliases :) Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

7:47pm Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Go to bed LGM and dream of all your exemplify friends in KTC, or the damage you and your friends have done to Keighley.

Now that must cheer you up!

David Samuels
Go to bed LGM and dream of all your exemplify friends in KTC, or the damage you and your friends have done to Keighley. Now that must cheer you up! David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

8:11pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

We now have two independent sources that have made clear the purchase of the old police station had nothing to do with attaining any Heritage Lottery Award Grant. This raises the question as to why comments implying it was were made in the first place. THAT IS ANOTHER QUESTION WHICH WE NEED TO HAVE ANSWERED VERY CLEARLY BY K.T.C
We now have two independent sources that have made clear the purchase of the old police station had nothing to do with attaining any Heritage Lottery Award Grant. This raises the question as to why comments implying it was were made in the first place. THAT IS ANOTHER QUESTION WHICH WE NEED TO HAVE ANSWERED VERY CLEARLY BY K.T.C Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

8:14pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

You're not listening as usual shhDave, it's lunchtime here! I'm just enjoying my second beer, watching the waves roll in an a beautiful sunny day - a few clouds about but there won't be any rain today. I really do hope you get everything you deserve my friend. As for Keighley, who cares! I haven't lived there for years, beats me why anyone would want to, the place is full of bitter, sad old people, druggies and worse if the KN is anything to go by, you're welcome to it :)
You're not listening as usual shhDave, it's lunchtime here! I'm just enjoying my second beer, watching the waves roll in an a beautiful sunny day - a few clouds about but there won't be any rain today. I really do hope you get everything you deserve my friend. As for Keighley, who cares! I haven't lived there for years, beats me why anyone would want to, the place is full of bitter, sad old people, druggies and worse if the KN is anything to go by, you're welcome to it :) Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

10:06pm Wed 20 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Little Green Man
7:00pm Wed 20 Mar 13


Graham Forsyth says...
8:11pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man 8:14pm Wed 20 Mar 13

I do not wish to make a meal of this, but I was never aware Keighley time was the same as in America!

You learn something new every day!.
....................
....................
......
Graham Forsyth says...
8:11pm Wed 20 Mar 13

We now have two independent sources that have made clear the purchase of the old police station had nothing to do with attaining any Heritage Lottery Award Grant.


Mr Forsyth, I do hope that you are not suggesting a member, or members of the honourable Keighley Town Council hierarchy could tell a lie?

Lets ask the Town Clerk, oh dear me she’s not being made available for any questions!

I wonder why?

Well Cllr Graham Mitchell, or the Mayor will have all the answers, or even the finance chairman.

If it was a lie Mr Forsyth will anybody have the decency to resign?

From past experience convicted felons have not bothered so probably not!

David Samuels, ....................
..
Little Green Man 7:00pm Wed 20 Mar 13 Graham Forsyth says... 8:11pm Wed 20 Mar 13 Little Green Man 8:14pm Wed 20 Mar 13 I do not wish to make a meal of this, but I was never aware Keighley time was the same as in America! You learn something new every day!. .................... .................... ...... Graham Forsyth says... 8:11pm Wed 20 Mar 13 We now have two independent sources that have made clear the purchase of the old police station had nothing to do with attaining any Heritage Lottery Award Grant. Mr Forsyth, I do hope that you are not suggesting a member, or members of the honourable Keighley Town Council hierarchy could tell a lie? Lets ask the Town Clerk, oh dear me she’s not being made available for any questions! I wonder why? Well Cllr Graham Mitchell, or the Mayor will have all the answers, or even the finance chairman. If it was a lie Mr Forsyth will anybody have the decency to resign? From past experience convicted felons have not bothered so probably not! David Samuels, .................... .. samuels david
  • Score: 0

10:17pm Wed 20 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

PC always stays on UK time, else I would be calling the folks up at all hours :)
PC always stays on UK time, else I would be calling the folks up at all hours :) Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

7:41am Thu 21 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

Cllr Val Slater, Portfolio holder, Housing, Planning and Transport, Bradford Council has a letter in the K.N Thursday March 21 2013, which rebutted the purchase of the old police station had any bearing on attaining Heritage Lottery award, stated:


“Keighley town councillor Lionel Lockley again brazenly makes the claim in the town's glossy magazine, recently distributed to local households.

I can assure the people of Keighley this is not the case.”

That 1.1 million pound loan, plus interest over fifty years, was taken out by K.T.C to finance it's failed civic centre, then any misleading claims or statements must be fully investigated and the perpetrator dealt with accordingly. The parishioners of Keighley deserve nothing less.
Cllr Val Slater, Portfolio holder, Housing, Planning and Transport, Bradford Council has a letter in the K.N Thursday March 21 2013, which rebutted the purchase of the old police station had any bearing on attaining Heritage Lottery award, stated: “Keighley town councillor Lionel Lockley again brazenly makes the claim in the town's glossy magazine, recently distributed to local households. I can assure the people of Keighley this is not the case.” That 1.1 million pound loan, plus interest over fifty years, was taken out by K.T.C to finance it's failed civic centre, then any misleading claims or statements must be fully investigated and the perpetrator dealt with accordingly. The parishioners of Keighley deserve nothing less. Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

9:09am Thu 21 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Mr Forsyth; I have the greatest respect for you and your Caveman Council friends.

In that light may I suggest Cllr Lockley was handed this information by a KTC fairy for good luck, as no honest member of the KTC hierarchy would have told Cllr Lockley a lie surely!

The implications that there is any dishonesty or skulduggery within KTC is ridiculous in my view, as I’m informed all members of the hierarchy are paragons of self righteousness, moral probity, and some even pray to God!

Therefore no misleading statement could have ever be uttered from Keighley Town Council as no mistakes are allowed, no lies ever told, etc and only honest and trustworthy people are admitted into the hollowed committees within KTC.

For example, one wouldn’t want a known convicted villain placed on the KTC Watch and Transport Committee, a committee that deals with many important issues, including allocating Keighley Precept monies to Keighley Police.

It’s reassuring to know the police are able immediately to be called if needed by the hierarchy in defence of its Keighley constituents due to the extra precept money available. (My Crime Number is 13110519094 given to me when my telephone wires were cut, probably because of my stance on the erosion of Free Speech in Keighley.)

I have trust in Keighley Town Council hierarchy Mr Forsyth.
They are all solid and moral citizens, true in every word and deed and if indeed any malfeasance ever occurred, the honourable members of KTC would, I believe, fight to the last member to right such a wrong.

All I have stated in the above I hope will be confirmed by the Keighley Town Clerk, her full staff and the loyal members of the hierarchy at tonight’s meeting of the newly named ‘Loads of Money’ Civic Centre.

David Samuels
Mr Forsyth; I have the greatest respect for you and your Caveman Council friends. In that light may I suggest Cllr Lockley was handed this information by a KTC fairy for good luck, as no honest member of the KTC hierarchy would have told Cllr Lockley a lie surely! The implications that there is any dishonesty or skulduggery within KTC is ridiculous in my view, as I’m informed all members of the hierarchy are paragons of self righteousness, moral probity, and some even pray to God! Therefore no misleading statement could have ever be uttered from Keighley Town Council as no mistakes are allowed, no lies ever told, etc and only honest and trustworthy people are admitted into the hollowed committees within KTC. For example, one wouldn’t want a known convicted villain placed on the KTC Watch and Transport Committee, a committee that deals with many important issues, including allocating Keighley Precept monies to Keighley Police. It’s reassuring to know the police are able immediately to be called if needed by the hierarchy in defence of its Keighley constituents due to the extra precept money available. (My Crime Number is 13110519094 given to me when my telephone wires were cut, probably because of my stance on the erosion of Free Speech in Keighley.) I have trust in Keighley Town Council hierarchy Mr Forsyth. They are all solid and moral citizens, true in every word and deed and if indeed any malfeasance ever occurred, the honourable members of KTC would, I believe, fight to the last member to right such a wrong. All I have stated in the above I hope will be confirmed by the Keighley Town Clerk, her full staff and the loyal members of the hierarchy at tonight’s meeting of the newly named ‘Loads of Money’ Civic Centre. David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

10:40am Thu 21 Mar 13

bantamcougar says...

cronk stanley wrote:
shshsoquiet wrote:
I'm afraid the little green man if you are implying I am a person with a name of Dave you are very sadly mistaken. To enlighten you ,you no not of me for I am an upstanding citizen of keighley and I have watched and waited until this time has come , and now and only now am I happy to voice my own opinion about this uncaring town council, and you sir treat this as a joke..
Ignore Green Man, Every one who has concerns about this toy town council is David Samuels.

Cllr Westerman, answer my questions please ! the electorate need answers, not more flaming grit bins !
Or should that be little green man ?
[quote][p][bold]cronk stanley[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]shshsoquiet[/bold] wrote: I'm afraid the little green man if you are implying I am a person with a name of Dave you are very sadly mistaken. To enlighten you ,you no not of me for I am an upstanding citizen of keighley and I have watched and waited until this time has come , and now and only now am I happy to voice my own opinion about this uncaring town council, and you sir treat this as a joke..[/p][/quote]Ignore Green Man, Every one who has concerns about this toy town council is David Samuels. Cllr Westerman, answer my questions please ! the electorate need answers, not more flaming grit bins ![/p][/quote]Or should that be little green man ? bantamcougar
  • Score: 0

1:14pm Thu 21 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Bantamcougar:

As is well known, not by all of course, but I’m seventy nine years young, and have been fighting stupidity for the majority of my life, well ever since I learnt fifty nine of my relatives’ were murdered by those who insisted debate was ‘verboten’.

In 1939 over forty million people, men, women, children, people with physical and mental disabilities, people of all faiths and creeds were slaughtered simply on the orders of egocentrics and the arrogance of a few who had decided they were the
only ones who were capable of running their world.

Many years later, a dear Lady friend of mine, of the Catholic faith and I were talking of the stupidity of such people.

The lady directed me to the writings of ‘Martin Niemoller’ 1892-1984 who basically stated everybody had to speak up to defeat the bullies of this world, because, if you allowed the bullies to win, then you could be next to be kicked.

Today on my way back home from Keighley I was shouted at by two females from across the street as I was about to enter my car. If I turned up tonight at the Civic Centre I could expect a ‘real f.....g thumping!’

I reported the matter to the Keighley News, but not the police, because my last experience with Keighley police resulted in me receiving a Crime number 13110519094 and nothing else.

This is not the first time such threats have been made by violent people to me, which makes me even more determined to go to this meeting, if only out of reverence to those who died and others still dying because they object to those who wished to punish those
who demand Free Speech and debate.


David Samuels
Bantamcougar: As is well known, not by all of course, but I’m seventy nine years young, and have been fighting stupidity for the majority of my life, well ever since I learnt fifty nine of my relatives’ were murdered by those who insisted debate was ‘verboten’. In 1939 over forty million people, men, women, children, people with physical and mental disabilities, people of all faiths and creeds were slaughtered simply on the orders of egocentrics and the arrogance of a few who had decided they were the only ones who were capable of running their world. Many years later, a dear Lady friend of mine, of the Catholic faith and I were talking of the stupidity of such people. The lady directed me to the writings of ‘Martin Niemoller’ 1892-1984 who basically stated everybody had to speak up to defeat the bullies of this world, because, if you allowed the bullies to win, then you could be next to be kicked. Today on my way back home from Keighley I was shouted at by two females from across the street as I was about to enter my car. If I turned up tonight at the Civic Centre I could expect a ‘real f.....g thumping!’ I reported the matter to the Keighley News, but not the police, because my last experience with Keighley police resulted in me receiving a Crime number 13110519094 and nothing else. This is not the first time such threats have been made by violent people to me, which makes me even more determined to go to this meeting, if only out of reverence to those who died and others still dying because they object to those who wished to punish those who demand Free Speech and debate. David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

4:01pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

Well I hope you all have a nice time tonight, be sure to let me know how it went won't you?
Well I hope you all have a nice time tonight, be sure to let me know how it went won't you? Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

4:02pm Thu 21 Mar 13

Graham Forsyth says...

cronk stanley. I would suggest you attend the annual meeting tonight at the civic centre. It could just be possible Cllr Westerman is saving his replies for this meeting.
cronk stanley. I would suggest you attend the annual meeting tonight at the civic centre. It could just be possible Cllr Westerman is saving his replies for this meeting. Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 0

12:25am Fri 22 Mar 13

samuels david says...

Little Green Man of course your side put up a good fight, because they equivocated with the truth, and wouldn’t, couldn’t probably answer any straight forward questions.

For instance, how much was the total cost of the Civic Centre, no anwser and even Morris as you are aware had to back tract on the hundred and ten thousand pounds taken from the allotment committee to fund the ever spiralling cost of the CC.

That your friends then blamed the disaster on the economic situation, even though they were fully aware of the situation at the time, showed just how desperate they are to blame others.

The stupidity of KTC is that the situation will become worse as each month passes, and the excuses become longer.

Reputations, already in tatters, will fray even more.

Mick of course, in my view. once again made a fool of himself, no effort then for him.

As much as I hate to admit only two committee Chairpersons were honest and to the point. (I must be mad to admit this!) they were Events and Margret Wards Strategy and Policy, the rest were all lies with a smidgen of truth to hide the bitter taste, in my view.

Sadly the funniest comment for me was when Lockley mentioned how much the Council weekend trips had improved the wellbeing of the bankrupt council.

The bully boys, who you’ll know, were out in numbers, had no chance of frightening me, as if really nasty people couldn’t scare me, what chance for the Keighley thugs.

What your friends lack of intelligence reveals is they haven’t realised truth is always the downfall of idiots.

Now take your medication and sleep well.

David Samuels
Little Green Man of course your side put up a good fight, because they equivocated with the truth, and wouldn’t, couldn’t probably answer any straight forward questions. For instance, how much was the total cost of the Civic Centre, no anwser and even Morris as you are aware had to back tract on the hundred and ten thousand pounds taken from the allotment committee to fund the ever spiralling cost of the CC. That your friends then blamed the disaster on the economic situation, even though they were fully aware of the situation at the time, showed just how desperate they are to blame others. The stupidity of KTC is that the situation will become worse as each month passes, and the excuses become longer. Reputations, already in tatters, will fray even more. Mick of course, in my view. once again made a fool of himself, no effort then for him. As much as I hate to admit only two committee Chairpersons were honest and to the point. (I must be mad to admit this!) they were Events and Margret Wards Strategy and Policy, the rest were all lies with a smidgen of truth to hide the bitter taste, in my view. Sadly the funniest comment for me was when Lockley mentioned how much the Council weekend trips had improved the wellbeing of the bankrupt council. The bully boys, who you’ll know, were out in numbers, had no chance of frightening me, as if really nasty people couldn’t scare me, what chance for the Keighley thugs. What your friends lack of intelligence reveals is they haven’t realised truth is always the downfall of idiots. Now take your medication and sleep well. David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 0

12:28am Fri 22 Mar 13

samuels david says...

samuels david says...
12:25am Fri 22 Mar 13

Little Green Man of course your side put up a good fight, because they equivocated with the truth, and wouldn’t, couldn’t probably answer any straight forward questions.

For instance, how much was the total cost of the Civic Centre, no anwser and even Morris as you are aware had to back tract on the hundred and ten thousand pounds taken from the allotment committee to fund the ever spiralling cost of the CC.

That your friends then blamed the disaster on the economic situation, even though they were fully aware of the situation at the time, showed just how desperate they are to blame others.

The stupidity of KTC is that the situation will become worse as each month passes, and the excuses become longer.

Reputations, already in tatters, will fray even more.

Mick of course, in my view. once again made a fool of himself, no effort then for him.

As much as I hate to admit only two committee Chairpersons were honest and to the point. (I must be mad to admit this!) they were Events and Margret Wards Strategy and Policy, the rest were all lies with a smidgen of truth to hide the bitter taste, in my view.

Sadly the funniest comment for me was when Lockley mentioned how much the Council weekend trips had improved the wellbeing of the bankrupt council.

The bully boys, who you’ll know, were out in numbers, had no chance of frightening me, as if really nasty people couldn’t scare me, what chance for the Keighley thugs.

What your friends lack of intelligence reveals is they haven’t realised truth is always the downfall of idiots.

Now take your medication and sleep well.

David Samuels”
samuels david says... 12:25am Fri 22 Mar 13 Little Green Man of course your side put up a good fight, because they equivocated with the truth, and wouldn’t, couldn’t probably answer any straight forward questions. For instance, how much was the total cost of the Civic Centre, no anwser and even Morris as you are aware had to back tract on the hundred and ten thousand pounds taken from the allotment committee to fund the ever spiralling cost of the CC. That your friends then blamed the disaster on the economic situation, even though they were fully aware of the situation at the time, showed just how desperate they are to blame others. The stupidity of KTC is that the situation will become worse as each month passes, and the excuses become longer. Reputations, already in tatters, will fray even more. Mick of course, in my view. once again made a fool of himself, no effort then for him. As much as I hate to admit only two committee Chairpersons were honest and to the point. (I must be mad to admit this!) they were Events and Margret Wards Strategy and Policy, the rest were all lies with a smidgen of truth to hide the bitter taste, in my view. Sadly the funniest comment for me was when Lockley mentioned how much the Council weekend trips had improved the wellbeing of the bankrupt council. The bully boys, who you’ll know, were out in numbers, had no chance of frightening me, as if really nasty people couldn’t scare me, what chance for the Keighley thugs. What your friends lack of intelligence reveals is they haven’t realised truth is always the downfall of idiots. Now take your medication and sleep well. David Samuels” samuels david
  • Score: 0

1:16pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Little Green Man says...

Thanks shhDave had a lovely sleep mate. I'm heading home today, looking forward to a decent pie and pint tomorrow - the beer where I live isn't quite up to Timothy Taylor standards but at least its better that the icy, gassy, tasteless stuff they serve over here :)
Thanks shhDave had a lovely sleep mate. I'm heading home today, looking forward to a decent pie and pint tomorrow - the beer where I live isn't quite up to Timothy Taylor standards but at least its better that the icy, gassy, tasteless stuff they serve over here :) Little Green Man
  • Score: 0

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