Keighley Civic Centre legal action

Keighley News: Gavin Farrar (right) with Wayne Hunnebell outside Keighley Civic Centre when Confianza moved out of the North Street building last year Gavin Farrar (right) with Wayne Hunnebell outside Keighley Civic Centre when Confianza moved out of the North Street building last year

A former tenant of the Keighley Town Council-run civic centre says he is taking legal action against the local authority.

Gavin Farrar, of the social enterprise Confianza, said he was suing the town council for compensation.

He claims before his organisation moved into the North Street property, it was promised 27 functions a year, which would enable it to sustain its catering operations in the building.

“We’re a not-for-profit organisation and we’d taken out a social enterprise loan, which we’d expected we could recoup,” he explained.

However, he said Confianza was instead forced to move out of the building last year with losses of £17,500 after the promised social functions failed to materialise.

A spokesman for the town council said it would not be commenting on Mr Farrar’s allegations. She pointed out the council’s office had not yet received any notification of legal action by Confianza.

The social enterprise had previously run the civic centre’s ground-floor cafe, as well as its bar and restaurant on the first floor. Confianza had also been using the premises to offer training courses for unemployed people.

Mr Farrar said the organisation was present in the building for about 12 months, but had to pull out in July of last year. He said he first initiated legal action against the town council last month.

When Confianza’s withdrawal from the civic centre was first reported in the Keighley News, Keighley’s town clerk, Miggy Bailey, responded that the council had been unable to reach a satisfactory agreement with Mr Farrar. “The relationship between tenant and council has broken down,” she added.

According to its own website, the civic centre continues to offer a cafe, which opens from 10am to 4pm from Tuesday to Saturday. The centre also caters for events such as weddings, anniversaries, birthdays or company dinners.

Comments (22)

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10:08am Thu 6 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

When Confianza’s withdrawal from the civic centre was first reported in the Keighley News, Keighley’s town clerk, Miggy Bailey, responded that the council had been unable to reach a satisfactory agreement with Mr Farrar. “The relationship between tenant and council has broken down,” she added.

The relationship between all the Tenants and the council has broken down. It is clear that this council has no concept of reality when it comes to dealing in the Business world.
External Auditors investigating, Legal action from ex Tenants, Letters from the Information Commissioners Office, criticism from Mp's, Bradford Council and Citizens.
When will this council realise that it is the cause of a;ll it's own problems and start trying to rectify the turmoil it has created?
When Confianza’s withdrawal from the civic centre was first reported in the Keighley News, Keighley’s town clerk, Miggy Bailey, responded that the council had been unable to reach a satisfactory agreement with Mr Farrar. “The relationship between tenant and council has broken down,” she added. The relationship between all the Tenants and the council has broken down. It is clear that this council has no concept of reality when it comes to dealing in the Business world. External Auditors investigating, Legal action from ex Tenants, Letters from the Information Commissioners Office, criticism from Mp's, Bradford Council and Citizens. When will this council realise that it is the cause of a;ll it's own problems and start trying to rectify the turmoil it has created? Always a 708 Skinhead
  • Score: 10

9:12pm Thu 6 Feb 14

Elizabeth Mitchell says...

Keighley Town Council lied to the public about the number of partners and tenants all the way through. During the inspection of accounts period, I asked to see all contracts with tenants and contractors. The council had to admit there were none. We found invoices from the council to tenants but these were not in the accounts. The councils attitude to business was deplorable. How can businesses in this town have confidence in a landlord (the council) that cannot even keep its own books in order, one that told the people of this town, and prospective partners and tenants, that it would make masses of profit.

This council has let down the public and sadly let down businesses. We need to encourage businesses into this town so I would like to wish Confianza all the luck in the world in their new venture. Keighley Town Council we are ashamed of you
Keighley Town Council lied to the public about the number of partners and tenants all the way through. During the inspection of accounts period, I asked to see all contracts with tenants and contractors. The council had to admit there were none. We found invoices from the council to tenants but these were not in the accounts. The councils attitude to business was deplorable. How can businesses in this town have confidence in a landlord (the council) that cannot even keep its own books in order, one that told the people of this town, and prospective partners and tenants, that it would make masses of profit. This council has let down the public and sadly let down businesses. We need to encourage businesses into this town so I would like to wish Confianza all the luck in the world in their new venture. Keighley Town Council we are ashamed of you Elizabeth Mitchell
  • Score: 12

9:26am Fri 7 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

K.N. Thursday 3rd June 2010.Keighley scheme
“The plans call for the council to take out loans to cover the cost of buying the building and bringing it back into use.
Running costs would be covered by hiring out rooms and the council saving money on its own accommodation costs.
The aim is for the civic centre to become self-financing and councillors stress there would be little, if any, increase in council tax.
The town council said that many organisations and businesses were interested in using the building.
The plan has been drawn up by the council’s special projects co-ordinator Alan Parry, with input from a small group of councillors. “

K.N. Thursday 22nd July 2010. Council is to borrow £1.1m for police site
“Mr Parry explained the venture should be self-financing, with income provided by the businesses and social groups which would use the building.
He said the contracts with these organisations were being negotiated, so their names could not yet be revealed.
He stressed the old police station’s purchase would not require an increase in the town council’s precept and would lead to the creation of at least 30 jobs.
He said the cost of the project had been calculated by assuming a minimum potential income and maximum possible expenditure. He said even these estimates showed the proposals would be profitable.”

K.N. Sunday 14th August 2011.£1.1m project is an arresting development
“Alan Parry, special projects officer for building owner Keighley Town Council, said the development was expected to attract visitors from all over the UK and would be officially opened early next year.”
“Mr Parry said: “It is a great asset for Keighley. We will have the only visitor centre that facilitates the study of forensic science in the country. We will attract schools and colleges from all over the country and bring the benefit to the people of Keighley.
“We are doing what we can to bring back the facilities we feel we have lost in Keighley over the last few years. The whole scheme is designed to support the community.”

Where are the partners? Why are there no contracts? Where are the visitors from all over the UK? Where are the visiting schools and colleges from all over the UK? What benefits has it brought to Keighley? How can a financial sink hole that is haemorrhaging precept money be a support for the community when the community has been stung by a 72.6% precept hike to help pay for it?

Best wishes for your new venture Mr Farrar and for the legal action you are taking.
K.N. Thursday 3rd June 2010.Keighley scheme “The plans call for the council to take out loans to cover the cost of buying the building and bringing it back into use. Running costs would be covered by hiring out rooms and the council saving money on its own accommodation costs. The aim is for the civic centre to become self-financing and councillors stress there would be little, if any, increase in council tax. The town council said that many organisations and businesses were interested in using the building. The plan has been drawn up by the council’s special projects co-ordinator Alan Parry, with input from a small group of councillors. “ K.N. Thursday 22nd July 2010. Council is to borrow £1.1m for police site “Mr Parry explained the venture should be self-financing, with income provided by the businesses and social groups which would use the building. He said the contracts with these organisations were being negotiated, so their names could not yet be revealed. He stressed the old police station’s purchase would not require an increase in the town council’s precept and would lead to the creation of at least 30 jobs. He said the cost of the project had been calculated by assuming a minimum potential income and maximum possible expenditure. He said even these estimates showed the proposals would be profitable.” K.N. Sunday 14th August 2011.£1.1m project is an arresting development “Alan Parry, special projects officer for building owner Keighley Town Council, said the development was expected to attract visitors from all over the UK and would be officially opened early next year.” “Mr Parry said: “It is a great asset for Keighley. We will have the only visitor centre that facilitates the study of forensic science in the country. We will attract schools and colleges from all over the country and bring the benefit to the people of Keighley. “We are doing what we can to bring back the facilities we feel we have lost in Keighley over the last few years. The whole scheme is designed to support the community.” Where are the partners? Why are there no contracts? Where are the visitors from all over the UK? Where are the visiting schools and colleges from all over the UK? What benefits has it brought to Keighley? How can a financial sink hole that is haemorrhaging precept money be a support for the community when the community has been stung by a 72.6% precept hike to help pay for it? Best wishes for your new venture Mr Farrar and for the legal action you are taking. Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 13

2:17pm Fri 7 Feb 14

samuels david says...

My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells! samuels david
  • Score: 10

7:19pm Fri 7 Feb 14

Ian-Holt Roberts says...

Gavin hope you and your good lady have the best of luck with your endeavors if your case is as good as the bacon sandwich I had at your new place at central hall on Tuesday yuo will win hands down
Gavin hope you and your good lady have the best of luck with your endeavors if your case is as good as the bacon sandwich I had at your new place at central hall on Tuesday yuo will win hands down Ian-Holt Roberts
  • Score: 10

8:38pm Sat 8 Feb 14

Little Green Man says...

samuels david wrote:
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us!
[quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells![/p][/quote]You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us! Little Green Man
  • Score: -6

8:38pm Sat 8 Feb 14

Little Green Man says...

samuels david wrote:
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us!
[quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells![/p][/quote]You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us! Little Green Man
  • Score: -6

9:41am Sun 9 Feb 14

Ian-Holt Roberts says...

samuels david wrote:
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
David one bacon sandwich does not a cafe make ,but on my visit to central hall and noticing the standard of food and of course the price I doubt that any failing of the cafe in the civic center could not be leveled at the tenants .
[quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells![/p][/quote]David one bacon sandwich does not a cafe make ,but on my visit to central hall and noticing the standard of food and of course the price I doubt that any failing of the cafe in the civic center could not be leveled at the tenants . Ian-Holt Roberts
  • Score: 5

9:46am Sun 9 Feb 14

Ian-Holt Roberts says...

Little Green Man wrote:
samuels david wrote:
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us!
I have had my doubts as to your true identity with regards you being a councilor but your reaction to any comment by David has me now suspecting you may well be one .
[quote][p][bold]Little Green Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells![/p][/quote]You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us![/p][/quote]I have had my doubts as to your true identity with regards you being a councilor but your reaction to any comment by David has me now suspecting you may well be one . Ian-Holt Roberts
  • Score: 5

11:31am Sun 9 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

Ian, it is clear from what Mr Farrar has said that the reason for his business losing money and leaving was due to being;

“ promised 27 functions a year, which would enable it to sustain its catering operations in the building.
“We’re a not-for-profit organisation and we’d taken out a social enterprise loan, which we’d expected we could recoup,” he explained.
However, he said Confianza was instead forced to move out of the building last year with losses of £17,500 after the promised social functions failed to materialise. “

And that fits in with this which also failed to materialise.

“Alan Parry, special projects officer for building owner Keighley Town Council, said the development was expected to attract visitors from all over the UK and would be officially opened early next year.”

“Mr Parry said: “It is a great asset for Keighley. We will have the only visitor centre that facilitates the study of forensic science in the country. We will attract schools and colleges from all over the country and bring the benefit to the people of Keighley.”

A great deal was said about the benefits which the civic centre would bring, all we attained is a massive financial liability which parishioners are now forced to pay for. And the expensive incompetence continues as KTC still carry on wasting precept money on their failed ambitious project.

I do hope that Mr Farrar attains the redress that has so far eluded parishioners.

Tick Tock
Ian, it is clear from what Mr Farrar has said that the reason for his business losing money and leaving was due to being; “ promised 27 functions a year, which would enable it to sustain its catering operations in the building. “We’re a not-for-profit organisation and we’d taken out a social enterprise loan, which we’d expected we could recoup,” he explained. However, he said Confianza was instead forced to move out of the building last year with losses of £17,500 after the promised social functions failed to materialise. “ And that fits in with this which also failed to materialise. “Alan Parry, special projects officer for building owner Keighley Town Council, said the development was expected to attract visitors from all over the UK and would be officially opened early next year.” “Mr Parry said: “It is a great asset for Keighley. We will have the only visitor centre that facilitates the study of forensic science in the country. We will attract schools and colleges from all over the country and bring the benefit to the people of Keighley.” A great deal was said about the benefits which the civic centre would bring, all we attained is a massive financial liability which parishioners are now forced to pay for. And the expensive incompetence continues as KTC still carry on wasting precept money on their failed ambitious project. I do hope that Mr Farrar attains the redress that has so far eluded parishioners. Tick Tock Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 8

12:15pm Sun 9 Feb 14

samuels david says...

Mr Roberts, you are, I believe, correct with regards to Little Green Man being a KT Councillor. That he will deny such a thing makes me believe that he’s a pathological liar, which however is an issue that only a physiatrist could possibly confirm.
Normally I try not to swim in waters that Little Green Man has polluted as it leaves on me a smell of his personal detritus, however once again, because I’m of the opinion Little Green Man, has no ability to understand even simple childish logic, I’ll repeat that I’m of the view that his implied innuendo of any past criminal activity on my part is of course a tactic he’d learnt, possibly, I believe, from his KTC hierarchy superiors.
At the moment I’ve no illegal parking charges, no speeding offensives to worry about, no assault charges, or domestic violence issues, ever in the fifty eight years with my wife.
Unlike his Councillor friend in KTC I have never been involved or convicted of theft from anybody. My only brushes with the law was when a KTC councillor at an open meeting of KTC, called a Keighley Police private number and ordered the Police to eject seven old aged members of the public who were stated to be causing a disturbance. The ten Keighley police officers at the scene refused to accept the word of Chair of the meeting, the Deputy Mayor of the time of the ongoing incident, that there was no disturbance and we were ejected. (No charges were laid against us!)
The next incident I’ve had with the Keighley Police was when, legally, I used the legitimate .gov email system to inform Cllr Westerman with data I had supplied to all KTC councillors at the time.
I’m informed he rang his friendly Keighley Police Force on his special police number and informed them I had sent him ten emails, of course a lie, and that I was causing him harassment.
Within an hour the long arm of the law were loudly knocking on my door, with the complaint of the convicted thief believed, unbelievably, without checking up on the issue. Again no charges were laid against me!)
So Little Green Man once again, you have it wrong, one day you and your friends within KTC will possibly get something right, but that I believe is when the our sun disappears and Earth freezes over
David Samuels
Mr Roberts, you are, I believe, correct with regards to Little Green Man being a KT Councillor. That he will deny such a thing makes me believe that he’s a pathological liar, which however is an issue that only a physiatrist could possibly confirm. Normally I try not to swim in waters that Little Green Man has polluted as it leaves on me a smell of his personal detritus, however once again, because I’m of the opinion Little Green Man, has no ability to understand even simple childish logic, I’ll repeat that I’m of the view that his implied innuendo of any past criminal activity on my part is of course a tactic he’d learnt, possibly, I believe, from his KTC hierarchy superiors. At the moment I’ve no illegal parking charges, no speeding offensives to worry about, no assault charges, or domestic violence issues, ever in the fifty eight years with my wife. Unlike his Councillor friend in KTC I have never been involved or convicted of theft from anybody. My only brushes with the law was when a KTC councillor at an open meeting of KTC, called a Keighley Police private number and ordered the Police to eject seven old aged members of the public who were stated to be causing a disturbance. The ten Keighley police officers at the scene refused to accept the word of Chair of the meeting, the Deputy Mayor of the time of the ongoing incident, that there was no disturbance and we were ejected. (No charges were laid against us!) The next incident I’ve had with the Keighley Police was when, legally, I used the legitimate .gov email system to inform Cllr Westerman with data I had supplied to all KTC councillors at the time. I’m informed he rang his friendly Keighley Police Force on his special police number and informed them I had sent him ten emails, of course a lie, and that I was causing him harassment. Within an hour the long arm of the law were loudly knocking on my door, with the complaint of the convicted thief believed, unbelievably, without checking up on the issue. Again no charges were laid against me!) So Little Green Man once again, you have it wrong, one day you and your friends within KTC will possibly get something right, but that I believe is when the our sun disappears and Earth freezes over David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 6

7:21pm Sun 9 Feb 14

Kingchaser says...

Remind me again.........How old were the members of the public? I've forgotten!
Remind me again.........How old were the members of the public? I've forgotten! Kingchaser
  • Score: -8

7:51am Mon 10 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

Members of the public are old enough and mature enough not to want this from the council they are paying for.

K.N. May 2003
“Keighley's mayor has called for a change of attitude from colleagues he blames for disharmony within the town council.
The body was hailed as an historic new voice for Keighley when it was launched last year, but has been dogged by bitter squabbles.”

K.N. May 2003
“District councillor Barry Thorne has made a call for an end to the in-fighting at Keighley Town Council and for the councillors to start working together for the benefit of Keighley.”

K.N. January 2007
“The deputy mayor of Keighley has resigned after a bust-up with Mayor Graham Mitchell.”

K.N. September 2008
“Conflict resolution training has been offered to Keighley town councillors to help them sort out any differences.”

K.N. October 2008
“If ever there was a sound worse than a stuck, long playing record, with a scratchy needle, it is the incessant nerve-jangling screech of Keighley town councillors falling out.”

K.N. February 2010
“It may be a fallacy, but every other parish council in our midst seems to get on with the job - not always seeing eye to eye - but resolving issues quickly and in a dignified fashion.
But once again the needle on the long-playing record at Keighley Town Council is firmly stuck.”

K.N. May 2010
“Keighley town councillors are at loggerheads over the spending of £148,000 from the sale of allotments.
Allotments committee members disagreed over whether proceeds could be spent on other council projects. They voted on Monday to plough just £35,000 from the sale back into the running of Keighley’s remaining allotments.
Allotments chairman Brian Morris this week told the Keighley News he had resigned over the issue.”

K.N. July 2010
Keighley’s mayor was forced to intervene to rein in bitter exchanges between town councillors.
“You’re adults, for God’s sake,” said Cllr Ian Wilson, responding to an increasingly bad-tempered debate in the town hall chamber last Thursday.

K.N. April 2011
“Keighley’s town clerk has come under fire for issuing a statement commenting on three candidates in next week’s local elections.”
Mr Morris said: “The office of the clerk is supposed to be impartial in all matters of the council. So for the clerk to make such comments shows the contempt she has for democracy and the democratically-elect
ed councillors.
“As for publicly commenting on candidates standing in an election, it is totally inappropriate at best, possibly illegal at worst.”

K.N. September 2011
“The mayor of Keighley has quit after being found guilty of stealing from the town’s rugby league club.”
“A spokesman for Keighley Town Council said Councillor Michael Westerman, who has completed five months of his year-long term of office, had stepped down for “personal reasons” – but was staying on as a town councillor.”


K.N. May 2013
“Keighley’s MP is demanding action by the town council as controversy continues to rage over its finances.
Kris Hopkins is calling on the local authority to open up its books for scrutiny by an independent accountant, to verify the current financial position and liabilities.”

K.N. January 2014
Objections to Keighley Town Council’s 2012-13 accounts will be investigated, according to an auditors’ letter seen by the Keighley News.

Add to this the shambolic handling by KTC of the loss making civic centre, and is it any wonder we now read of the problems Mr Farrar has experienced when dealing with KTC. And let us not forget Mr Grant Doyle, another ex civic centre tenant and the problems he also had dealing with KTC.

It is one thing for such as Cllr Graham Mitchell to wax lyrical about the grit bin provision KTC provides, now with added grit bin map, how it lobbies on behalf of Keighley, but what does the history of this council and it's recent publicity do for the town? 72.6% precept hike, failed ambitious project that only helps to highlight how dysfunctional this council is, mentioned in Parliament, lost the plot, under investigation by the external auditors.

It would be easier to promote Genghis Khan as a peacemaker than to try and promote KTC as a well run council in touch with reality and exercising sound fiscal acumen.

Tick Tock
Members of the public are old enough and mature enough not to want this from the council they are paying for. K.N. May 2003 “Keighley's mayor has called for a change of attitude from colleagues he blames for disharmony within the town council. The body was hailed as an historic new voice for Keighley when it was launched last year, but has been dogged by bitter squabbles.” K.N. May 2003 “District councillor Barry Thorne has made a call for an end to the in-fighting at Keighley Town Council and for the councillors to start working together for the benefit of Keighley.” K.N. January 2007 “The deputy mayor of Keighley has resigned after a bust-up with Mayor Graham Mitchell.” K.N. September 2008 “Conflict resolution training has been offered to Keighley town councillors to help them sort out any differences.” K.N. October 2008 “If ever there was a sound worse than a stuck, long playing record, with a scratchy needle, it is the incessant nerve-jangling screech of Keighley town councillors falling out.” K.N. February 2010 “It may be a fallacy, but every other parish council in our midst seems to get on with the job - not always seeing eye to eye - but resolving issues quickly and in a dignified fashion. But once again the needle on the long-playing record at Keighley Town Council is firmly stuck.” K.N. May 2010 “Keighley town councillors are at loggerheads over the spending of £148,000 from the sale of allotments. Allotments committee members disagreed over whether proceeds could be spent on other council projects. They voted on Monday to plough just £35,000 from the sale back into the running of Keighley’s remaining allotments. Allotments chairman Brian Morris this week told the Keighley News he had resigned over the issue.” K.N. July 2010 Keighley’s mayor was forced to intervene to rein in bitter exchanges between town councillors. “You’re adults, for God’s sake,” said Cllr Ian Wilson, responding to an increasingly bad-tempered debate in the town hall chamber last Thursday. K.N. April 2011 “Keighley’s town clerk has come under fire for issuing a statement commenting on three candidates in next week’s local elections.” Mr Morris said: “The office of the clerk is supposed to be impartial in all matters of the council. So for the clerk to make such comments shows the contempt she has for democracy and the democratically-elect ed councillors. “As for publicly commenting on candidates standing in an election, it is totally inappropriate at best, possibly illegal at worst.” K.N. September 2011 “The mayor of Keighley has quit after being found guilty of stealing from the town’s rugby league club.” “A spokesman for Keighley Town Council said Councillor Michael Westerman, who has completed five months of his year-long term of office, had stepped down for “personal reasons” – but was staying on as a town councillor.” K.N. May 2013 “Keighley’s MP is demanding action by the town council as controversy continues to rage over its finances. Kris Hopkins is calling on the local authority to open up its books for scrutiny by an independent accountant, to verify the current financial position and liabilities.” K.N. January 2014 Objections to Keighley Town Council’s 2012-13 accounts will be investigated, according to an auditors’ letter seen by the Keighley News. Add to this the shambolic handling by KTC of the loss making civic centre, and is it any wonder we now read of the problems Mr Farrar has experienced when dealing with KTC. And let us not forget Mr Grant Doyle, another ex civic centre tenant and the problems he also had dealing with KTC. It is one thing for such as Cllr Graham Mitchell to wax lyrical about the grit bin provision KTC provides, now with added grit bin map, how it lobbies on behalf of Keighley, but what does the history of this council and it's recent publicity do for the town? 72.6% precept hike, failed ambitious project that only helps to highlight how dysfunctional this council is, mentioned in Parliament, lost the plot, under investigation by the external auditors. It would be easier to promote Genghis Khan as a peacemaker than to try and promote KTC as a well run council in touch with reality and exercising sound fiscal acumen. Tick Tock Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 7

8:27am Mon 10 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

Maybe Dicky Mitchell and his very vocal followers such as ex councillor Joyce Newton should consider what the above article is telling them.
The fact that it isn't only Members of Cavetown who have found the actions of Keighley Town council to be unacceptable.
Ex Tenants have been so badly let down by the council and it's incompetent ways that they are takking legal action to rectify this.

So let's consider the recent words of the council campaigner Joyce Newton-
"What effect has this campaign had on the morale of officers and councillors? What effect is this having on Keighley?"

Yes indeed Joyce, the underhand misleading campaign by the likes of yourself and the council elite must surely be having a negative impact on morale.
As for the effect it is having on Keighley well we don't need to look too far for the answer to that one-
Embarrassment by being named in Parliament for the wrong reasons.
The unjustifiable extraction of over half a million pounds from households each year ad infinitum ,the majority of which is to simply service debts and pay for the running of an incompetent and ineffective council.
A decrease in the amount of Allotments available to the people of Keighley as they are sold of to service the debt.
Legal fees mounting up to defend the actions of the council which will no doubt lead to more costs in paying compensation leading to yet more draining of the funds extracted from the Public
Accountancy fees mounting up as the bigger the financial fiasco gets the more expensive it will be to resolve, once again adding an increase to the Burden on the Taxpayer by this incompetent council.

So let's take a deep breath Joyce and coldly consider how we got here.
Perhaps the easiest way to do this is to quote the words of Kris Hopkins MP which are recorded as a matter of historical reference in the Houses of Parliament Hansard documents-
"Keighley town council has interpreted localism as an opportunity to empire-build. Bearing in mind the fact that its sole responsibility under statute is for allotments, it has taken it upon itself to purchase the old police station in Keighley and offer the town a new civic centre at a cost of £1 million, despite the fact that the town already has a town hall and a brand new community centre within 400 yards of the civic centre. Sadly, the business plan does not service the debt that has been incurred, so residents have to pay a 72.6% increase in the precept. This is a shambles, and it is of the council’s own making. Rather than sting local residents, it should look at its overheads, and address staffing levels and its transport bill, rather than impose an extra burden on hard-pressed families."

So perhaps it is time to stop your foolish campaigning Dicky Mitchell andJoyce Newton before you do any more damage to Keighley.
Maybe Dicky Mitchell and his very vocal followers such as ex councillor Joyce Newton should consider what the above article is telling them. The fact that it isn't only Members of Cavetown who have found the actions of Keighley Town council to be unacceptable. Ex Tenants have been so badly let down by the council and it's incompetent ways that they are takking legal action to rectify this. So let's consider the recent words of the council campaigner Joyce Newton- "What effect has this campaign had on the morale of officers and councillors? What effect is this having on Keighley?" Yes indeed Joyce, the underhand misleading campaign by the likes of yourself and the council elite must surely be having a negative impact on morale. As for the effect it is having on Keighley well we don't need to look too far for the answer to that one- Embarrassment by being named in Parliament for the wrong reasons. The unjustifiable extraction of over half a million pounds from households each year ad infinitum ,the majority of which is to simply service debts and pay for the running of an incompetent and ineffective council. A decrease in the amount of Allotments available to the people of Keighley as they are sold of to service the debt. Legal fees mounting up to defend the actions of the council which will no doubt lead to more costs in paying compensation leading to yet more draining of the funds extracted from the Public Accountancy fees mounting up as the bigger the financial fiasco gets the more expensive it will be to resolve, once again adding an increase to the Burden on the Taxpayer by this incompetent council. So let's take a deep breath Joyce and coldly consider how we got here. Perhaps the easiest way to do this is to quote the words of Kris Hopkins MP which are recorded as a matter of historical reference in the Houses of Parliament Hansard documents- "Keighley town council has interpreted localism as an opportunity to empire-build. Bearing in mind the fact that its sole responsibility under statute is for allotments, it has taken it upon itself to purchase the old police station in Keighley and offer the town a new civic centre at a cost of £1 million, despite the fact that the town already has a town hall and a brand new community centre within 400 yards of the civic centre. Sadly, the business plan does not service the debt that has been incurred, so residents have to pay a 72.6% increase in the precept. This is a shambles, and it is of the council’s own making. Rather than sting local residents, it should look at its overheads, and address staffing levels and its transport bill, rather than impose an extra burden on hard-pressed families." So perhaps it is time to stop your foolish campaigning Dicky Mitchell andJoyce Newton before you do any more damage to Keighley. Always a 708 Skinhead
  • Score: 6

12:42pm Mon 10 Feb 14

samuels david says...

Simon Mitchell, the mental nobodies and misfits of society I believe smarmed their way into the KT Council and took control.
They seemingly did not care about the great economic carnage and credibility of Keighley, including the Worth Valley area that was brought about primarily by their actions of financial ineptitude.

You mention the decrease in the amount of Allotments available to the people of Keighley, sold off to service an increasing debt for an ego mad idea of an illusory project, that basic simple childish logic stated was a ‘no no’, thought up by what I believe, was and still is an incompetent council hierarchy.

Obviously such a situation should never have arisen and wouldn’t have in a well run and open transparent Council, a Council many who believe were and still are, mentally unable to listen to common sense.

In my view the ‘Headless Chicken Syndrome’ was always the prevailing mode of operation within KTC right from the start in 2002.
For instance the Deputy Town Clerk withdrew approx £1340 from the KTC bank account, and then paid sums of money to various ‘artist’ who’d performed at a KTC ‘Event’, but didn’t ask for receipts at the time from these ‘artist’.

While this is just one of many incidents of the past I hope to be bring to the attention of the Audit Commission, others such as a sum £408 for booze, given unknowingly, by Keighley precept payers as a ‘thank you’ to PAID ‘artist’ at an event, is another of the many inappropriate uses of precept monies needing, I believe to be viewed.

That the same policies of incompetence are continuing does not in any way surprise me at all, and such incompetence I suggest may all be laid at the door of the clique possibly headed by an incompetent buffoon.

So Joyce Newton and others allied I suspect to KTC, do let's take a deep breath, as you suggest, and now coldly consider how we can get out of the mess the idiots within KTC got Keighley into.

David Samuels
PS Simon, you seen able to upset the highly educated Mark Pullen, without even trying. What's your gift, and will you share it with others all over the world?
David Samuels
Simon Mitchell, the mental nobodies and misfits of society I believe smarmed their way into the KT Council and took control. They seemingly did not care about the great economic carnage and credibility of Keighley, including the Worth Valley area that was brought about primarily by their actions of financial ineptitude. You mention the decrease in the amount of Allotments available to the people of Keighley, sold off to service an increasing debt for an ego mad idea of an illusory project, that basic simple childish logic stated was a ‘no no’, thought up by what I believe, was and still is an incompetent council hierarchy. Obviously such a situation should never have arisen and wouldn’t have in a well run and open transparent Council, a Council many who believe were and still are, mentally unable to listen to common sense. In my view the ‘Headless Chicken Syndrome’ was always the prevailing mode of operation within KTC right from the start in 2002. For instance the Deputy Town Clerk withdrew approx £1340 from the KTC bank account, and then paid sums of money to various ‘artist’ who’d performed at a KTC ‘Event’, but didn’t ask for receipts at the time from these ‘artist’. While this is just one of many incidents of the past I hope to be bring to the attention of the Audit Commission, others such as a sum £408 for booze, given unknowingly, by Keighley precept payers as a ‘thank you’ to PAID ‘artist’ at an event, is another of the many inappropriate uses of precept monies needing, I believe to be viewed. That the same policies of incompetence are continuing does not in any way surprise me at all, and such incompetence I suggest may all be laid at the door of the clique possibly headed by an incompetent buffoon. So Joyce Newton and others allied I suspect to KTC, do let's take a deep breath, as you suggest, and now coldly consider how we can get out of the mess the idiots within KTC got Keighley into. David Samuels PS Simon, you seen able to upset the highly educated Mark Pullen, without even trying. What's your gift, and will you share it with others all over the world? David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 3

7:30pm Mon 10 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

What KTC planned and what actually materialised.


MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 26 MAY 2010
“It was noted that the Finance Committee was not responsible for ensuring that the project is good for Keighley but to ensure financial interests e.g. whether the project will be self financing.”

MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 7 JULY 2010
“The Special Projects Co-ordinator advised that the franchise fees will cover the cost of the interest on the loan and an excess of a minimum of £71,000 per annum which can be used for capital repayment, reinvestment, investment etc. at the Council’s pleasure. These fees have already been agreed with our partners in principle. A 10% profit share will also be received.”

“The Business Plan has been created using the maximum bills and minimum income to provide figures that are ‘worst case’. These figures do not include income from profit share or marketing.”

K.N. January 2013. 'Keighley Civic Centre will some day pay for itself'
“Keighley Town Council still believes the town’s Civic Centre – currently maintained with council funds – can some day pay for itself.
The local authority re-opened the empty North Street building – formally the town’s police station – last summer, and it now includes a police museum, cafe and visitor information centre.
The town council voted last month to set up a specialist committee to run it.
At a meeting of the council’s finance committee in Keighley Town Hall last Wednesday, members said the new committee would be tasked with not just making the centre self-funding, but also possibly to make a profit.”


K.N. February 2013. Keighley Civic Centre deserves support, says chairman Lionel Lockley
“The centre, in North Street, has attracted fierce criticism since it emerged it is £74,000 in the red.
But Keighley town councillor Lionel Lockley said he and his fellow committee members would do all in their power to make the building a success.”

K.N. May 2013. Shock as Keighley Civic Centre is found to be £162,000 in the red
“Shocking’ figures revealed this week show Keighley’s controversial civic centre is more than £162,000 in the red.
The massive funding shortfall is more than double the amount published just three months ago, when town councillors approved a record 72.6 per cent hike in the council tax precept to help prop up the ailing project. “

The ambitious project failed right from the start, it continues to fail, and KTC are failing to come up with any plan to stop the financial losses that were partly responsible for KTC setting the 72.6% precept hike in order to help pay for council incompetence.

Tick Tock
What KTC planned and what actually materialised. MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 26 MAY 2010 “It was noted that the Finance Committee was not responsible for ensuring that the project is good for Keighley but to ensure financial interests e.g. whether the project will be self financing.” MINUTES OF A MEETING OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 7 JULY 2010 “The Special Projects Co-ordinator advised that the franchise fees will cover the cost of the interest on the loan and an excess of a minimum of £71,000 per annum which can be used for capital repayment, reinvestment, investment etc. at the Council’s pleasure. These fees have already been agreed with our partners in principle. A 10% profit share will also be received.” “The Business Plan has been created using the maximum bills and minimum income to provide figures that are ‘worst case’. These figures do not include income from profit share or marketing.” K.N. January 2013. 'Keighley Civic Centre will some day pay for itself' “Keighley Town Council still believes the town’s Civic Centre – currently maintained with council funds – can some day pay for itself. The local authority re-opened the empty North Street building – formally the town’s police station – last summer, and it now includes a police museum, cafe and visitor information centre. The town council voted last month to set up a specialist committee to run it. At a meeting of the council’s finance committee in Keighley Town Hall last Wednesday, members said the new committee would be tasked with not just making the centre self-funding, but also possibly to make a profit.” K.N. February 2013. Keighley Civic Centre deserves support, says chairman Lionel Lockley “The centre, in North Street, has attracted fierce criticism since it emerged it is £74,000 in the red. But Keighley town councillor Lionel Lockley said he and his fellow committee members would do all in their power to make the building a success.” K.N. May 2013. Shock as Keighley Civic Centre is found to be £162,000 in the red “Shocking’ figures revealed this week show Keighley’s controversial civic centre is more than £162,000 in the red. The massive funding shortfall is more than double the amount published just three months ago, when town councillors approved a record 72.6 per cent hike in the council tax precept to help prop up the ailing project. “ The ambitious project failed right from the start, it continues to fail, and KTC are failing to come up with any plan to stop the financial losses that were partly responsible for KTC setting the 72.6% precept hike in order to help pay for council incompetence. Tick Tock Graham Forsyth
  • Score: 5

7:17pm Tue 11 Feb 14

Little Green Man says...

Ian-Holt Roberts wrote:
Little Green Man wrote:
samuels david wrote:
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us!
I have had my doubts as to your true identity with regards you being a councilor but your reaction to any comment by David has me now suspecting you may well be one .
Prove it Roberts
[quote][p][bold]Ian-Holt Roberts[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Little Green Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells![/p][/quote]You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us![/p][/quote]I have had my doubts as to your true identity with regards you being a councilor but your reaction to any comment by David has me now suspecting you may well be one .[/p][/quote]Prove it Roberts Little Green Man
  • Score: -1

7:31pm Tue 11 Feb 14

Little Green Man says...

samuels david wrote:
Mr Roberts, you are, I believe, correct with regards to Little Green Man being a KT Councillor. That he will deny such a thing makes me believe that he’s a pathological liar, which however is an issue that only a physiatrist could possibly confirm.
Normally I try not to swim in waters that Little Green Man has polluted as it leaves on me a smell of his personal detritus, however once again, because I’m of the opinion Little Green Man, has no ability to understand even simple childish logic, I’ll repeat that I’m of the view that his implied innuendo of any past criminal activity on my part is of course a tactic he’d learnt, possibly, I believe, from his KTC hierarchy superiors.
At the moment I’ve no illegal parking charges, no speeding offensives to worry about, no assault charges, or domestic violence issues, ever in the fifty eight years with my wife.
Unlike his Councillor friend in KTC I have never been involved or convicted of theft from anybody. My only brushes with the law was when a KTC councillor at an open meeting of KTC, called a Keighley Police private number and ordered the Police to eject seven old aged members of the public who were stated to be causing a disturbance. The ten Keighley police officers at the scene refused to accept the word of Chair of the meeting, the Deputy Mayor of the time of the ongoing incident, that there was no disturbance and we were ejected. (No charges were laid against us!)
The next incident I’ve had with the Keighley Police was when, legally, I used the legitimate .gov email system to inform Cllr Westerman with data I had supplied to all KTC councillors at the time.
I’m informed he rang his friendly Keighley Police Force on his special police number and informed them I had sent him ten emails, of course a lie, and that I was causing him harassment.
Within an hour the long arm of the law were loudly knocking on my door, with the complaint of the convicted thief believed, unbelievably, without checking up on the issue. Again no charges were laid against me!)
So Little Green Man once again, you have it wrong, one day you and your friends within KTC will possibly get something right, but that I believe is when the our sun disappears and Earth freezes over
David Samuels
Dave old pal, you yourself told us that the police visited you regarding various emails you sent (and if the content of which were anything like this particular post then I'm not suprised) and the 'ejection' of umpteen pensioners was another police contact. You also told us some time ago of the visit from the police regarding the cutting of the telephone wires at your home (which of course you probably did your self as to seek attention) that my friend is that visits by the police more than I have had in the last 50 years! That in my book makes you more familiar with the police than me at least! The fact that you weren't convicted wasn't my point and I never implied it you really should read more carefully or be less paranoid.

As for the content of your last post there were at least 5 actual insults or possible libelous remarks - were you still a councillor you would be no better than the current bunch, financial mismanagement in public office is one thing, slander and libel are pretty serious too - how you havent been locked up for that is one of lifes little mysteries!
[quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: Mr Roberts, you are, I believe, correct with regards to Little Green Man being a KT Councillor. That he will deny such a thing makes me believe that he’s a pathological liar, which however is an issue that only a physiatrist could possibly confirm. Normally I try not to swim in waters that Little Green Man has polluted as it leaves on me a smell of his personal detritus, however once again, because I’m of the opinion Little Green Man, has no ability to understand even simple childish logic, I’ll repeat that I’m of the view that his implied innuendo of any past criminal activity on my part is of course a tactic he’d learnt, possibly, I believe, from his KTC hierarchy superiors. At the moment I’ve no illegal parking charges, no speeding offensives to worry about, no assault charges, or domestic violence issues, ever in the fifty eight years with my wife. Unlike his Councillor friend in KTC I have never been involved or convicted of theft from anybody. My only brushes with the law was when a KTC councillor at an open meeting of KTC, called a Keighley Police private number and ordered the Police to eject seven old aged members of the public who were stated to be causing a disturbance. The ten Keighley police officers at the scene refused to accept the word of Chair of the meeting, the Deputy Mayor of the time of the ongoing incident, that there was no disturbance and we were ejected. (No charges were laid against us!) The next incident I’ve had with the Keighley Police was when, legally, I used the legitimate .gov email system to inform Cllr Westerman with data I had supplied to all KTC councillors at the time. I’m informed he rang his friendly Keighley Police Force on his special police number and informed them I had sent him ten emails, of course a lie, and that I was causing him harassment. Within an hour the long arm of the law were loudly knocking on my door, with the complaint of the convicted thief believed, unbelievably, without checking up on the issue. Again no charges were laid against me!) So Little Green Man once again, you have it wrong, one day you and your friends within KTC will possibly get something right, but that I believe is when the our sun disappears and Earth freezes over David Samuels[/p][/quote]Dave old pal, you yourself told us that the police visited you regarding various emails you sent (and if the content of which were anything like this particular post then I'm not suprised) and the 'ejection' of umpteen pensioners was another police contact. You also told us some time ago of the visit from the police regarding the cutting of the telephone wires at your home (which of course you probably did your self as to seek attention) that my friend is that visits by the police more than I have had in the last 50 years! That in my book makes you more familiar with the police than me at least! The fact that you weren't convicted wasn't my point and I never implied it you really should read more carefully or be less paranoid. As for the content of your last post there were at least 5 actual insults or possible libelous remarks - were you still a councillor you would be no better than the current bunch, financial mismanagement in public office is one thing, slander and libel are pretty serious too - how you havent been locked up for that is one of lifes little mysteries! Little Green Man
  • Score: -3

7:40pm Tue 11 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

Not sure anyone can be locked up for slander or libel LGM. But some of your recent comments certainly have fallen into the criminal catergory.
Not sure anyone can be locked up for slander or libel LGM. But some of your recent comments certainly have fallen into the criminal catergory. Always a 708 Skinhead
  • Score: 4

8:30pm Tue 11 Feb 14

Little Green Man says...

Prove it Simone
Prove it Simone Little Green Man
  • Score: -5

8:40am Wed 12 Feb 14

Ian-Holt Roberts says...

Little Green Man wrote:
Ian-Holt Roberts wrote:
Little Green Man wrote:
samuels david wrote:
My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council .

David Samuels
PS Who has the keys to the cells!
You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us!
I have had my doubts as to your true identity with regards you being a councilor but your reaction to any comment by David has me now suspecting you may well be one .
Prove it Roberts
i do not have to prove it MAN
[quote][p][bold]Little Green Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Ian-Holt Roberts[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Little Green Man[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]samuels david[/bold] wrote: My best wishes for the legal action you are taking against the KTC, maybe this action will expose the truth regarding those who proposed this nightmare for the precept payers, the Tenants and the Council . David Samuels PS Who has the keys to the cells![/p][/quote]You should know Loquacious Dave - you have more contact with the police than the rest of us![/p][/quote]I have had my doubts as to your true identity with regards you being a councilor but your reaction to any comment by David has me now suspecting you may well be one .[/p][/quote]Prove it Roberts[/p][/quote]i do not have to prove it MAN Ian-Holt Roberts
  • Score: 5

10:35am Wed 12 Feb 14

samuels david says...

Trusted sources tell me that if the KTC hierarchy carry on with their unethical financial demands on former tenants of the now notorious Civic Centre debacle the opened can of worms may possibly result in criminal charges that not even the KTC hierarchies’ friendly police force will be able to stop.
Let the battle for justice commence!
David Samuels
Trusted sources tell me that if the KTC hierarchy carry on with their unethical financial demands on former tenants of the now notorious Civic Centre debacle the opened can of worms may possibly result in criminal charges that not even the KTC hierarchies’ friendly police force will be able to stop. Let the battle for justice commence! David Samuels samuels david
  • Score: 7

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