Keighley campaigner (From Keighley News)

I personally find this woman a very sick individual,,,,from my readings about her over the past 15 years, she is a very political and anti-establishment person, who seeks to find trouble and stir up peoples hate for simply no reasons at all,,,, and why does she do this,,, quite simply because of her utter need to be in the lime light,,, she seeks to find media attention her life,,,,,, go away helen and crawl under your rock,,, people want to morn and british people have the right to morn there dead in a way thats customary in the british way,,,,, if the islamists want to morn there dead,, let them do it in there way and not try and make a mockery of the british way of showing compassion and respect for the men who actually fought and died for your country,,,,, turn the tables helen,,, would the british get away with holding a british funeral in an islamic church or on islamic holy ground,,, i think not,,,ps,,,, this is from ireland not yorkshire,,,, im being objective here,,, not racist,,, my problem is with helen helping to make a mockery of the british soldiers who believe in there country and actually proving it by giving there lives for there country,,,,, helen please go away now,,, you will be in retrospect a very unpopular woman,,,,

I would not worry about Helen Johns comments, it's just her opinion. Islam4uk will not be allowed to march through Wootton Bassett under any circumstances. As many comments submitted through various newspapers recently, Islam4UK is definately "not" 4 UK.

there wont be a march there probably was never going to be but there doesn't have to be, these sick individuals have got what they wanted "publicity"

the people of wootton basstt are not glorifying war nor are they making any sort of political point about the war,they are merely showing a sign of respect for our armed forces and the people who serve in them who have given the ultimate sacrifice in all our names.of course ms john is not stupid as she and islam 4 uk already knows this, as the previous post said they are merely out for as much publicity as they can get.i suppose they have won as we are here discussing this.
however ms john, the British people are not as dense as you think we are we know that there are episodes in our past we should be ashamed of but show me a country that hasn't got skeletons particularly in times of war.
the irony is she should have tried speaking her mind in a pre war Afghanistan and see how many rights she would have had as a female to do so.

It would seem that this woman is a driven by publicity as the clowns who use the guise of a 'peace march' to stick two fingers up to the country who supports them financially. These people and this women herself are publicly mocking a system that allows them the freedom to believe what they want to believe in without persecution and expecting the rest of us to accept a medievel belief system which in fact denies the freedoms we enjoy here. Here's the real news . Our leaders, both Governmental and Educational are spineless, self serving, cretins who climb over each other to prove how ' open and accepting ' we are of other cultures, at the expense of our own, and they fool no one. They may be teaching our young to be ashamed of our own history, culture and lifestyle whilst teaching them instead to respect and learn about polar opposite cultures who have no desire to merge. But we are not so easily fooled. Our culture is one of balance and social reform, a culture refined over thousands of years and a culture that embraces freedom of thought and movement. I cannot accept the bashing it gets from people who want to move us backwards two thousand years , nor will i. The war is a horrible thing, however this march is nothing to do with war, it is a tardy, sick publicity stunt designed to aggrevate and frustrate. Time for some leadership with a backbone methinks.

politics aside these soldier,s lost there lives .helen john is showing no respect for the dead . she like islam4uk are doing this to get publicity shame on you both .any respect people had for your veiws have been lost you insult the memory of young lives cut short ,you also insult the widow,s and orphaned children again shame on you

Dr_Pandro wrote:
It would seem that this woman is a driven by publicity as the clowns who use the guise of a 'peace march' to stick two fingers up to the country who supports them financially. These people and this women herself are publicly mocking a system that allows them the freedom to believe what they want to believe in without persecution and expecting the rest of us to accept a medievel belief system which in fact denies the freedoms we enjoy here. Here's the real news . Our leaders, both Governmental and Educational are spineless, self serving, cretins who climb over each other to prove how ' open and accepting ' we are of other cultures, at the expense of our own, and they fool no one. They may be teaching our young to be ashamed of our own history, culture and lifestyle whilst teaching them instead to respect and learn about polar opposite cultures who have no desire to merge. But we are not so easily fooled. Our culture is one of balance and social reform, a culture refined over thousands of years and a culture that embraces freedom of thought and movement. I cannot accept the bashing it gets from people who want to move us backwards two thousand years , nor will i. The war is a horrible thing, however this march is nothing to do with war, it is a tardy, sick publicity stunt designed to aggrevate and frustrate. Time for some leadership with a backbone methinks.

Brilliant post. When in Rome as the saying goes.

helen john stated we are ignorant to the deaths of innocents over in afghanistan and iraq .most of the deaths are not caused by british troops , the killings are done by insurgents roadside bombs , suicide bombers ,etc they also torture and coerce the civilain population. in iraq the estimated deaths is around 250000+ again most of these are linked to insurgent groups attacking different communities .torture ,coercian kidnappings, are common place , in basra this was very much reduced due to the british forces police actions.the british forces in afghanistan are not fighting the afghan nation they are fighting insurgents .i think helen is ignorant to the fact the insurgents/taliban are cold hearted killers who will kill ,maim and torture anybody who veiws differs from there,s .so helen i suggest you read up on afghanistan,s insurgents or maybe pay them a visit ,as i think your ignorant to the facts and ignorant to the feelings of grieveing family,s and family,s of serveing men and women.

I don't know exactly what Islam UK is trying to achieve. But the rules of engagement in Afghanistan are very strict for ISAF forces.

I would like Ms John to qualify for us exactly what she thinks of extremeist regimes such as the Taliban regime which we are trying to supress for the benefit of the people of Afghanistan.

I also reference Ms John's statement “It’s about time people in this country understood that British soldiers had been killing people in other countries for centuries and it has to stop.” Does she include in this the actions of allied forces during WW1 and WW2 ?? I just wonder where she stands on this?

PS. I do believe that Ms John will be reading these comments. I would urge you Ms John to answer to my comments, and justify your opinion - I would be all ears.

Does Ms John not realise that the very same medieval bigots she supports, i.e. Anjem Choudry and his deluded pals, would have her trussed up in a burkha and locked away in the kitchen in double-quick time if they had their way. She currently enjoys a freedom of speech which Islam4UK would swiftly remove before she could even open her mouth to speak.

But she's speaking now, in this free country with it's freedom of speech, and yet you're all attacking her. Leave her alone, she is entitled to have her views - which are in essence pacifisitic and anti-war, and are for that reason commendable. She is brave for standing up for them and speaking out knowing how controversial the topic is and how much flack she was likely to have flung at her from people who have commented on this site and resorted to low-wit insults. This is what we should be celebrating about our country - don't agree with what she says fine but respect her right to say it, give her some credit. I would like to see you guys passionately speaking out about your beliefs to the press and putting your face to it when you're 70 years-old!

your absolutely right frankness it is a free country and that is the point we've been trying to make.she is sticking up for people who would love to take that right away and it is also our right to disagree with her.i don't think it is just a pacifist stand but she is effectifly spitting in the faces of the deceased soldiers families and calling them murderers this i find both wrong and extremely distasteful.if she is such a fan of debate and freedom of speech why doesn't she come on here and defend herself as the dead can not.

Yes "Frankness", you are correct, this is a country where a view can be held and expressed, provided, and this has always been true, that it does not forment violence, which is exactly what her support for Islam4uk will bring.
Islam4uk, just in case you are ignorant of the facts, have been holding meetings and lectures across the midlands, they are preaching for violent jihad to be brought to the streets of the UK, their leader is the exiled fanatic "Omar Bakri Mohammed", remember that name, it is the intention of Islam4uk, to do away with UK law and replace it with Sharia law, even though there are now more than 80 legal Sharia law courts in the UK, this mob wish to do away with UK law alltogether, big surprise.

Islam4uk is an Islamofascist group, an offshoot of the banned Al Muhajiroun, a very nasty extremely violent Islamic organisation. Islam4uk preaches sedition and volent jihad on the internet Utube site, universities colleges and schools, snooker clubs, Muslim youth clubs and on the streets.

One such leader of this Islamofascist organisation is the peddler of hate in the UK, "Abu Waleed", another of Islam4uks so called speakers is "Abu Uzair", who recently gave this message to the people of Britain, Quote "We do not live in peace with you any more, the banner has risen for jihad in the UK, which means it allows for bombers to attack", end of Quote. I have highlighted the names of the enemy for your future reference in case you ever need them.

Islam4uk are not going to march through Wootton Bassett, even if the police allow it the country will not, and if they do, mayhem will ensue. The backlash against Muslim interests in this country will be absolute.

To answer your post, no, this is not a free country, it never has been, it is a controlled one, freedom of speech exists to the point of violence and sedition, Helen john is entitled to her views and so are we, she is not brave she is naively stupid in her support of Islam4uk, if she can speak the words she can take the flack, I celebrate my country for what it is, not for what it could become, because of her support for this group, I give her no credit and no respect and if you support her then you too should hang your head in shame, and at 70 years old she should know better.

Since your Islamic friends are so keen on expousing to one and all their Koranic verses I will leave you with this thought from the "Bible", remember that.
Ecclesistes 3:8.
"A time for love, and a time for hate, a time for war, and a time for peace".

Should read, "Ecclesiastes 3:8.
I would like to add, this woman has, for her support of Islam4uk, signed a pact with the devil, may she reap the whirlwind.

looney wrote:
I personally find this woman a very sick individual,,,,from my readings about her over the past 15 years, she is a very political and anti-establishment person, who seeks to find trouble and stir up peoples hate for simply no reasons at all,,,, and why does she do this,,, quite simply because of her utter need to be in the lime light,,, she seeks to find media attention her life,,,,,, go away helen and crawl under your rock,,, people want to morn and british people have the right to morn there dead in a way thats customary in the british way,,,,, if the islamists want to morn there dead,, let them do it in there way and not try and make a mockery of the british way of showing compassion and respect for the men who actually fought and died for your country,,,,, turn the tables helen,,, would the british get away with holding a british funeral in an islamic church or on islamic holy ground,,, i think not,,,ps,,,, this is from ireland not yorkshire,,,, im being objective here,,, not racist,,, my problem is with helen helping to make a mockery of the british soldiers who believe in there country and actually proving it by giving there lives for there country,,,,, helen please go away now,,, you will be in retrospect a very unpopular woman,,,,

Being a mother of a soldier in the British Army, who has served a tour of Afghanistan and will be returning again this year, I was livid to read this report on the front page of your paper. Those six months when my boy was away were the worst six months of my life and I have it to face again. Can Helen John imagine what it is like to go to bed every night and be grateful that you haven't had that dreaded knock at the door but also think you could be woken during the night to be told your son is dead. To then wake to news on the radio that a soldier is dead and wait for the next sentence to see if the family had been informed. If they had been informed the feeling of guilt you had for being happy that your boy was ok because obviously there was a mother out there whose world had just been shattered. My whole life was consumed with my boy during these times, and cry for every single person who has been affected byour soldiers deaths . As for Wootten Bassett becoming a "big showpiece" I have felt nothing but pride in our nation pulling together and showing their appreciation for the sacrifice our wonderful children and their families have made. If it was possible I would attend every repatriation. How many innocent victims (this includes all the military services) have died at the hands of the suicide bombers and i.e.d's because of these crackpots. Helen John do you really think this wouldn't be happening if we weren't there? I don't think so! Get a life. From a Soldiers VERY PROUD mum

Jacquienoon,
What you have written is all this woman should ever need to know, and her future actions should be based on what you have said, words that only the brave mum of a very brave serving British soldier can tell us. I hope that your words will have an impact on this fool, they certainly have on me.
May I take this opportunity to wish you and your very brave son all the best for the future, thank you.

When I read the article pertaining to Ms Johns views on the proposed march in Wootton Bassett by Islam4UK I wasn't surprised but I was offended indeed outraged.

In the first instance I would agree there is a serious issue here but if a point needs to be made surely the Politicians at Westminster are the ones to take the protest too!

The good people of Wootton Bassett do what they do to show respect to those that have fallen in the service of their country. It is done without wish of favour but done with dignity and grace and I hope it in some way shows those families that have lost loved ones that there are those that care about the scarifice that has been made and that there is real gratitude from the majority of people in this country, Wootton Bassett speaks for the majority of the country by it's selfless actions.

The brave men and women in Afghanistan are there at the behest of this rotten Government and have done good works to try and help the ordinary people of Afghanistan.

Sorry to point this out Ms Johns but the vast majority of deaths of Muslims have been perpetrated by extremist Muslims, I should be grateful if you could explain to me how our solidiers are responsible?

The Islam4Uk website speaks of world domination I have no desire to live in a society like that, indeed as a Gay man I could not expect tolerance indeed I could expect something much more brutal. Ms Johns the hard won freedoms for women would certainly disappear and I wonder how you would react to that?

Islam4UK does not I am certain represent the views of the vast majority of the Muslim community. Yet its bile and hatred will alas whip up resentment, in my view Anjem Choudary should face penalities for the potential of this proposed action to whip up racial hatred and tensions, it would appear you support this Ms Johns.

The families that have lost sons and daughters deserve better than your mealy mouthed plaudits Ms John and for someone of your years you display not just a lack of wisdom but compassion and understanding save that of your narrow views.

Further no right thinking person wishes for war but alas sometimes it is necessary, members of my family made that scarifice in WWII, can anyone imagine how life would have been under the Nazi Jackboot? intolerable certainly, I am grateful to those that fell so that we could be free. Yet I wonder how they might feel to read your odious comments Ms John! just be grateful that there were those prepared to do that so you might have the freedom to air your views!

Not suprising but the march is off - http://news.bbc.co.u
k/1/hi/uk/8451014.st
m - but the damage is done.

MarkPullen wrote:
Not suprising but the march is off - http://news.bbc.co.u k/1/hi/uk/8451014.st m - but the damage is done.

Thanks for that Mark, but as you say, the damage has been done.

I don't agree with the illegal wars in Afghanistan and Iraq (As they are for power & greed and not for WMD's - as we all now know), but I don't this march was the right thing to do.

However, I don't this march was ever going to happen anyway. It was a publicity stunt which worked.

Islam4UK is not a mainstream islamic organisation and have changed thier name several times to hide their backgrounds

One thing to come out of it though at least is that it has increased awareness of the many innocent muslims whio have been killed in this conflict- all in the name of greed, power, oil and money

Today, monday 11 jan, Kent news have reported that mother of 4 Jo Cleary, the woman who started the Facebook campaign to protest about the planned march by Islam4uk in Wootton Bassett and received over 700.000 signatures, has been recieving abusive and life threatening phone calls and e-mails, they also report that similar threats have been made to the loved ones of our dead servicemen, the police have said they do not think they were made by any ethnic or religious group, and have offered Jo Cleary protection.
With a police force like ours, who needs enemies.
Islam4uk have done their job well, if the so called moderate Muslims do not rise up in anger against this scum, it will eventually fall to the rest of us to do so.

And to top it off Vinny the scum in Luton who verbally abused our soldiers during the home coming parade were yesterday let off with a slap on the wrist. Don't you just love our slap dash approach in this country. The courts are just as bad as the government.

The BBC have now announced (http://news.bbc.co.
uk/1/hi/uk/8453560.s
tm) that the group Islam4UK is due to be banned under the counter-terrorism laws.

It will not stop them by merely making their organisation illegal. We are dealing with fanatics here who believe for some strange reason that this country should be islamified in the name of allah or whoever he is. Most people will agree that these lunatics represent no one, and we do see the odd postings on various websites by people with muslim names condeming them. This is all well and good but what we need is several high profile muslim leaders from all over the country speaking out on television, telling the majority that this is not the way islam teaches or accepts and "Christianity" and it values is the way in which all citizens of the United Kingdom should adhere too. After that let's see the police do their job and uphold the law in the way it was designed, not based on colour, creed, religion or any other pc nonsense that arises.

If the jihadists are 'at war' with us, maybe internment should be brought back in - just like for the germans and italians during the war? Surely, itd be only right to interre folk who openly declare a war on us? Wheres the difference between then and now?

ps the spikes would have to be filed off the barbed wire, for health and safety reasons!

Kevin Costner wrote:
It will not stop them by merely making their organisation illegal. We are dealing with fanatics here who believe for some strange reason that this country should be islamified in the name of allah or whoever he is. Most people will agree that these lunatics represent no one, and we do see the odd postings on various websites by people with muslim names condeming them. This is all well and good but what we need is several high profile muslim leaders from all over the country speaking out on television, telling the majority that this is not the way islam teaches or accepts and "Christianity" and it values is the way in which all citizens of the United Kingdom should adhere too. After that let's see the police do their job and uphold the law in the way it was designed, not based on colour, creed, religion or any other pc nonsense that arises.

I'm muslim and I condemn these prats - but apologise - for what?

It wasn't the muslims who gave islam4uk permission to march through wooton bassett - it was the council (non-muslim) - so they should apologise

It is not the muslim media giving these misguided people the media attention they seek - it is sky, bbc and the other non muslim media - they should apologise too

and are you going to apologies for English defence league and their racist chanting and marches my friend??

bluecorner100 wrote:

Kevin Costner wrote: It will not stop them by merely making their organisation illegal. We are dealing with fanatics here who believe for some strange reason that this country should be islamified in the name of allah or whoever he is. Most people will agree that these lunatics represent no one, and we do see the odd postings on various websites by people with muslim names condeming them. This is all well and good but what we need is several high profile muslim leaders from all over the country speaking out on television, telling the majority that this is not the way islam teaches or accepts and "Christianity" and it values is the way in which all citizens of the United Kingdom should adhere too. After that let's see the police do their job and uphold the law in the way it was designed, not based on colour, creed, religion or any other pc nonsense that arises.

I'm muslim and I condemn these prats - but apologise - for what? It wasn't the muslims who gave islam4uk permission to march through wooton bassett - it was the council (non-muslim) - so they should apologise It is not the muslim media giving these misguided people the media attention they seek - it is sky, bbc and the other non muslim media - they should apologise too and are you going to apologies for English defence league and their racist chanting and marches my friend??

You confuse me with your comments. Where in my posting have I asked for anyone to apologise?

Kevin Costner wrote:

bluecorner100 wrote:

Kevin Costner wrote: It will not stop them by merely making their organisation illegal. We are dealing with fanatics here who believe for some strange reason that this country should be islamified in the name of allah or whoever he is. Most people will agree that these lunatics represent no one, and we do see the odd postings on various websites by people with muslim names condeming them. This is all well and good but what we need is several high profile muslim leaders from all over the country speaking out on television, telling the majority that this is not the way islam teaches or accepts and "Christianity" and it values is the way in which all citizens of the United Kingdom should adhere too. After that let's see the police do their job and uphold the law in the way it was designed, not based on colour, creed, religion or any other pc nonsense that arises.

I'm muslim and I condemn these prats - but apologise - for what? It wasn't the muslims who gave islam4uk permission to march through wooton bassett - it was the council (non-muslim) - so they should apologise It is not the muslim media giving these misguided people the media attention they seek - it is sky, bbc and the other non muslim media - they should apologise too and are you going to apologies for English defence league and their racist chanting and marches my friend??

You confuse me with your comments. Where in my posting have I asked for anyone to apologise?

You write
"Most people will agree that these lunatics represent no one, and we do see the odd postings on various websites by people with muslim names condeming them. This is all well and good but what we need is several high profile muslim leaders from all over the country speaking out on television, telling the majority that this is not the way islam teaches or accepts and "Christianity" and it values is the way in which all citizens of the United Kingdom should adhere too"

this is tantamount to an apology in my opinion, when muslims have condemned and shunned these individuals numerous times in the past.

Yet you don't see other leaders condemning the racist chanting of the EDL.

Bluecorner100. Your opinion absolutely but incorrect. Let's not stray off the topic here, we are specifically talking about these muslim fanatics who believe Great Britain should adopt islamic law (sharia). These people are off their nuts. Not only are they a waste of space but they will eventually damage cohesion beyond repair if not challenged. We keep hearing so often by the authorities etc that when an incident occurs in the muslim community, the elders and community leaders need to speak out, now is their chance. it's that simple bluecorner, we don't need what about edl or any other organisation at the moment, they are the least of your problem for this story.

Yes there are other lunatics out there and they do need challenging, but, let's keep each issue on its own, that way confusion does not dilute the debate we are discussing on this posting.

Bluecorner,
No one gave permission to Islam4uk to march through the town of Wootton Bassett, this wonderful idea was formulated by Islam4uk alone, a simple ploy to gain publicity, yet all it achieved was their proscription, for any government to have to do this in a country where freedom of speech and the right of all its citizens to protest tells us of the depth of outrage this proposed march created.
You say you condemn and shun, "these prats", well sadly that is nowhere near enough, the simple fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history, it is the fanatics who march, it is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide, the fanatics who slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa, trying to take over that Continent in a violent Islamic wave.
It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, honour kill, spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals, it is the fanatic who teaches his child to become a suicide bomber, it is the fanatic who created the English defence league which will, in turn, create other anti-Islamic movements across the uk in defiance of, and as a backlash against the fanatics in Islam, and it is the fanatic who proposed a march through Wootton Bassett.
Peace loving Muslims like yourself, have been made irrelevant, meaningless by your silence and one day you will wake up to find the fanatics own you, like so many others who have died in their millions because the peaceful majority did not speak up.
Bluecorner, As we watch, you and I, Christian and Muslim, as these fanatics gain more and more ground throughout the world, we must all learn to agree, that the only group we must pay attention to and destroy are the fanatics, for there is only one conclusion to all of this, and in the very near future, you know what that is, that unless you act now, that through their actions, the fanatics will destroy you.