Keighley Committee delivers ‘real benefits’ claim

Keighley News: Keighley Committee delivers ‘real benefits’ claim Keighley Committee delivers ‘real benefits’ claim

A Keighley Town Council committee chairman claims he and his colleagues are delivering real benefits for local people.

Graham Mitchell, of the watch and transport committee, highlighted the provision of items such as security window locks, police cameras, police mountain bikes, road signs, extra bus shelters and 60 extra grit bins.

He added: “This committee is now being paid to refill some Bradford District Council grit bins in Keighley Central and West wards.

“And Keighley wouldn’t have had its Boxing Day bus services – the first in 22 years – without the efforts of this committee. And we’re working with Keighley Police to make new ‘Smart Water’ packs widely available to restrict the theft of flagstones.

“We’ve also agreed to financially support the new Green Dog Walkers scheme, to counteract the menace of dog excrement on pavements and in parks.”

The committee is backing the Friends of Keighley Tarn group, and working with Haworth and Oxenhope parish councils to create a framework for a new community emergency services hub for the Worth Valley.

“This is a committee that has never overspent its annual budget,” he said. “Indeed, we’ve frequently handed back funds at the end of the financial year.

“These are the things we’ve done for Keighley, not as ‘keyboard warriors’, but as elected members who’ve rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting and delivered positive benefits for the people who elected us.”

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6:52am Fri 14 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

councillor Dicky Mitchell says-
He added: “This committee is now being paid to refill some Bradford District Council grit bins in Keighley Central and West wards.

In the council minutes we can see the real story behind this statement-

That the remaining eleven Bradford MDC grit bins listed by the Area Co-ordinator’s Office be filled at a cost of £25.00 per bin, on the understanding that this is strictly a one-off arrangement with no on-going responsibility for Keighley Town Council

So 11 bins at £25.00 amounts to a massive £275 earned by the council.
I wonder how much will actually be claimed in expenses by whoever fills the bins.
I wonder how much the grit used cost the tax payers of Keighley in the first place.
Wow Dicky, when you think about this it really isn't much to boast about is it?
Not when the council's annual income from the People of the Town is over £500,000.
councillor Dicky Mitchell says- He added: “This committee is now being paid to refill some Bradford District Council grit bins in Keighley Central and West wards. In the council minutes we can see the real story behind this statement- That the remaining eleven Bradford MDC grit bins listed by the Area Co-ordinator’s Office be filled at a cost of £25.00 per bin, on the understanding that this is strictly a one-off arrangement with no on-going responsibility for Keighley Town Council So 11 bins at £25.00 amounts to a massive £275 earned by the council. I wonder how much will actually be claimed in expenses by whoever fills the bins. I wonder how much the grit used cost the tax payers of Keighley in the first place. Wow Dicky, when you think about this it really isn't much to boast about is it? Not when the council's annual income from the People of the Town is over £500,000. Always a 708 Skinhead

6:57am Fri 14 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

Dicky also states-
“This is a committee that has never overspent its annual budget,” he said. “Indeed, we’ve frequently handed back funds at the end of the financial year."

So are we to take it from this statement that other Committee's regularly do overspend their annual Budgets?

For a council under Investigation about Financial Irregularities I hardly think a boast about underspending by one committee while suggesting others overspend is going to do the council any favours.
No doubt the External Auditors will give us a much more detailed and accurate statement on this subject later in the year councillor so until then, why not remain silent on the subject as you have done all year regarding Financial Matters.
Dicky also states- “This is a committee that has never overspent its annual budget,” he said. “Indeed, we’ve frequently handed back funds at the end of the financial year." So are we to take it from this statement that other Committee's regularly do overspend their annual Budgets? For a council under Investigation about Financial Irregularities I hardly think a boast about underspending by one committee while suggesting others overspend is going to do the council any favours. No doubt the External Auditors will give us a much more detailed and accurate statement on this subject later in the year councillor so until then, why not remain silent on the subject as you have done all year regarding Financial Matters. Always a 708 Skinhead

9:12am Fri 14 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

Cllr MItchell.
"extra bus shelters"

How many extra bus shelters have been provided via the efforts of the W&T Committee besides the one in Oakworth, Cllr Mitchell's Ward. Does anyone know?

Cllr Mitchell
“This committee is now being paid to refill some Bradford District Council grit bins in Keighley Central and West wards."

Extract from Tony Reeves, (chief executive of Bradford Council) letter to KTC town clerk on the devolvement of services to KTC of services
Grit Bins
"While additional resources can meet some minority aspirations, it doe make the issue of responsibility less transparent and can lead to the undermining of the District policy.
It is unlikely given the district's responsibilities for delivering this function under the Highways act that it would be able to delegate this function to an independent organisation. Any such delegation would also require that organisation to put in place adequate third party insurance to deal with any claims out of disruption or service failures perceived or actual."

Cllr Mitchell
“And Keighley wouldn’t have had its Boxing Day bus services – the first in 22 years – without the efforts of this committee"

K.N. December 2013. ‘Use it or lose it’ plea on Boxing Day buses in Keighley
"Bronte Country Tourism Partnership member, Graham Mitchell, said the service was secured following requests from Keighley Town Council and the Airedale Shopping Centre.
“This is being done as a trial, and if these buses are little used or not used, it may not happen again,” he warned. "

That would be joint effort then, and a trial.

Cllr Mitchell.
“These are the things we’ve done for Keighley, not as ‘keyboard warriors’, but as elected members who’ve rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting and delivered positive benefits for the people who elected us.”

And it it thanks to keyboard warriors, such as Cavetown Council, who rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting, that the maladministration (Ombudsman definition) of KTC is to be investigated by the external auditors.


And what about the civic centre Cllr Mitchell, while not under the remit of the W&T Committee, what is it you also said about this?


K.N. 14 February 2014.
"Coun Graham Mitchell said he was one of many councillors who originally voted in favour of the civic centre project. "I don't accept that it's unused and unwanted - "I'm proud of the civic centre and I will continue to support it."

If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?


Tick Tock
Cllr MItchell. "extra bus shelters" How many extra bus shelters have been provided via the efforts of the W&T Committee besides the one in Oakworth, Cllr Mitchell's Ward. Does anyone know? Cllr Mitchell “This committee is now being paid to refill some Bradford District Council grit bins in Keighley Central and West wards." Extract from Tony Reeves, (chief executive of Bradford Council) letter to KTC town clerk on the devolvement of services to KTC of services Grit Bins "While additional resources can meet some minority aspirations, it doe make the issue of responsibility less transparent and can lead to the undermining of the District policy. It is unlikely given the district's responsibilities for delivering this function under the Highways act that it would be able to delegate this function to an independent organisation. Any such delegation would also require that organisation to put in place adequate third party insurance to deal with any claims out of disruption or service failures perceived or actual." Cllr Mitchell “And Keighley wouldn’t have had its Boxing Day bus services – the first in 22 years – without the efforts of this committee" K.N. December 2013. ‘Use it or lose it’ plea on Boxing Day buses in Keighley "Bronte Country Tourism Partnership member, Graham Mitchell, said the service was secured following requests from Keighley Town Council and the Airedale Shopping Centre. “This is being done as a trial, and if these buses are little used or not used, it may not happen again,” he warned. " That would be joint effort then, and a trial. Cllr Mitchell. “These are the things we’ve done for Keighley, not as ‘keyboard warriors’, but as elected members who’ve rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting and delivered positive benefits for the people who elected us.” And it it thanks to keyboard warriors, such as Cavetown Council, who rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting, that the maladministration (Ombudsman definition) of KTC is to be investigated by the external auditors. And what about the civic centre Cllr Mitchell, while not under the remit of the W&T Committee, what is it you also said about this? K.N. 14 February 2014. "Coun Graham Mitchell said he was one of many councillors who originally voted in favour of the civic centre project. "I don't accept that it's unused and unwanted - "I'm proud of the civic centre and I will continue to support it." If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley? Tick Tock Graham Forsyth

11:48am Fri 14 Feb 14

OUT WITH CAVETOWN says...

Graham Forsyth says...
"If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?"

Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!.
Graham Forsyth says... "If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?" Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!. OUT WITH CAVETOWN

11:55am Fri 14 Feb 14

Katiery says...

Self-praise is no recommendation.

Prov. If you praise yourself, people will think that you are boastful and will not respect you. 'After listening to the lawyer brag about his achievements for a solid half hour, I decided I would find someone else to handle my case.'

I've just been out to check my local grit bin. It is indeed full, but the lid is broken so it takes two people to open it and remove the grit. Not much help on the steep hill if you are stuck there alone.
Self-praise is no recommendation. Prov. If you praise yourself, people will think that you are boastful and will not respect you. 'After listening to the lawyer brag about his achievements for a solid half hour, I decided I would find someone else to handle my case.' I've just been out to check my local grit bin. It is indeed full, but the lid is broken so it takes two people to open it and remove the grit. Not much help on the steep hill if you are stuck there alone. Katiery

12:54pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

Out with Cavetown says-
"Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!."

Oh dear OWC, you can't seem to get your facts right can you. Cavetwon was formed in February 2013, on the 7th of Feb 2013 we can read the following taken from the Keighley News-
Councillors have partly blamed its unprecedented 72.6 per cent precept hike on the centrepiece building being £74,000 in the red, less than a year after the former police station was launched in its new guise.

So as you can see OWC before Cavetown was even formed not only was the Civic Centre generating massive debts but we can see that even back then councillors themselves were blaming the centrepiece for the massive precept rise.

Your lies on these pages are certainly not helping bring credibility to the council are they Out with Cavetown?
Although as you say any fool could blame Cavetown for the mess of this council.
Please continue fool.
Out with Cavetown says- "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!." Oh dear OWC, you can't seem to get your facts right can you. Cavetwon was formed in February 2013, on the 7th of Feb 2013 we can read the following taken from the Keighley News- Councillors have partly blamed its unprecedented 72.6 per cent precept hike on the centrepiece building being £74,000 in the red, less than a year after the former police station was launched in its new guise. So as you can see OWC before Cavetown was even formed not only was the Civic Centre generating massive debts but we can see that even back then councillors themselves were blaming the centrepiece for the massive precept rise. Your lies on these pages are certainly not helping bring credibility to the council are they Out with Cavetown? Although as you say any fool could blame Cavetown for the mess of this council. Please continue fool. Always a 708 Skinhead

3:12pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

OUT WITH CAVETOWN wrote:
Graham Forsyth says...
"If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?"

Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!.
Here you are OWC, a chronological review of how KTC's ambitious project, the infamous civic centre, was faring before Cavetown came along.


28 January 2011. KTC Financial Adviser, Keith Pickles. Report on 2011-12 Budget

2) There is no provision in the budget for the running costs of the Civic Centre. All these costs will have to be met from income. This includes the costs of repaying the PWLB loan of £1.1, which in 2011-12 will amount to around £50,000
3) The capital cost of the Civic centre will have to be met from the £1.1 m PWLB loan plus the £110,000 available from the sale of the Skipton Road Allotments There are no other reserves available to fund any additional expenditure apart from cutting the 2011-12 revenue expenditure.
4) It is likely that the income generated by the projects coordinator will fall short of the budget in 2011-2012. This can be met from general reserves in this year. However, should income fail to meet the budget figure in 2011-12, there are only small reserves to cover this, and could probably only be financed by reducing spending elsewhere.



“April 2012 – The civic centre opens “

April
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward. - £26,118.62.

May 2012 KTC confidential document. Committee Report – Civic Centre
“Taking into account the above expected expenditure, this leaves the Civic Centre projected balance into -£10,750 without the costs for the Civic Centre opening catering and the running costs including furniture & equipment lease charges accounted for.
Unless there is a vast amount of income generated, it will be the Town Council reserves that will be supporting the shortfall.”
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward-£39,565.09

June 2012. KTC confidential document. Committee Report – Civic Centre
“Taking into account the above expected expenditure this leaves a projected balance of -£54,840 for the Civic centre. This does not include running costs.
Unless there is a vast amount of income generated, it ill be the Town Council reserves that will be supporting the shortfall.”
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£70,568.28



K.N. Thursday 26th July 2012. Civic centre 'in money losses'
“Keighley Town Council’s new North Street civic centre has allegedly suffered serious financial losses for two consecutive months.
The claims have been made by Riddlesden resident Graham Forsyth”
“Mr Parry said Mr Forsyth’s figures were wrong and based on out-of-date, incomplete information. He said Mr Forsyth had not seen details contained in other documents which show how new sources of income will cover the expenditure.”
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£79,785.00

Note. When I asked KTC what these new sources of income were the town clerk ,Miggy Bailey, informed me there were none. Why then did Alan Parry state to the KN there were new sources of income?



K.N. Thursday 2nd August 2012.Council hits back over claims centre loses money
“The town’s mayor, Councillor George Metcalf, this week hit back at claims that the new facility had suffered serious financial losses.
In a statement provided to the Keighley News on Tuesday he said: “The Civic Centre finances have not been in a loss situation and to date are still in the black.
“It is anticipated that the annual minimum expected income will be £219,000. The committed expected expenses per year for the civic centre will be £216,000.
“These figures do not include any profit share and are based on worst case scenario figures.”
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£84,831.41



September
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£137,204.59



November
MINUTES OF A MEETING OF KEIGHLEY TOWN COUNCIL THURSDAY 1 NOVEMBER 2012
“In response to questioning, Councillor Philip explained that the Civic Centre is currently being subsidised by the Town Council’s Contingency Funds and funding has been loaned to the Social Enterprise Company, both as a temporary measure.”
RESOLVED
“That Councillor Pedley leads an investigation into the situation surrounding advertising and commission with a local company with whom the Town Council has had dealings.”
Extract from Pedley report.
6.4 There is good reason to believe that AP failed to deliver the expected outcomes that were tasked for the Civic Centre. KTC made a considerable financial committed on the understanding that the SPC would ensure that the centre's running costs were fully covered. This has not been accomplished and has left KTC in a precarious position. The current financial deficit stands at £64,000.

Full report can be read here.
https://docs.google.
com/file/d/0ByE4D40i
mmo-Tkdmb3VkdURKaEk/
edit?pli=1
Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£170,258.25




K.N. Thursday 7th February 2013 Keighley Town Council bids for 72.6 per cent charges hike
“Keighley residents face a massive inflation-busting rise in town council charges to prop up its loss-making civic centre.”
K.N. 18 February 2013.Keighley Civic Centre deserves support, says chairman Lionel Lockley
“The centre, in North Street, has attracted fierce criticism since it emerged it is £74,000 in the red.
But Keighley town councillor Lionel Lockley said he and his fellow committee members would do all in their power to make the building a success.”

As Cavetown was only created in February 2013, and the civic centre project started back in 2010, we can also read how the attaining of partners was progressing. Take note of the years, not months, in attaining partners

MINUTES OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 7 JULY 2010
“The Special Projects Co-ordinator confirmed that the potential partners could not be named as they are not yet contractually committed, with some opportunities having multiple interested parties. “

MINUTES OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 09 NOVEMBER 2011
“The names of the partners will be announced soon, the paperwork is currently with the Solicitors.”

MINUTES OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 7 MARCH 2012
“It was confirmed that three partners had now signed their agreements.”

MINUTES OF THE MANAGEMENT & STAFFING COMMITTEE MONDAY 23 JULY 2012
Update on Partners
“Mr Parry explained that arrangements are almost complete with all partners. The caterers have now been replaced with a Company who is in a position to become a fully fledged partner. All bonds and rents for the Centre are almost up to date and all contracts will be finalised shortly.”

16 October 2012 reply from town clerk: “I can confirm that the partners in the Civic Centre are Money Mediation, Jigsaw Properties, The Cell at the Civic and The Police Experience.  All have signed  up.”

25 February 2013, the last update from the town clerk on the partners contracts was thus:

“In response to your request for copy Contracts with partners in the Civic Centre I can confirm that there are no Contracts.”

The receipts and payments show for each month from April to December there was a minus balance to carry forward. The two confidential civic centre reports from May-June 2012 warned of the need to generate vast amount of income, and the centre had only been open since April. The reality is the centre was never making enough money to cover it's running costs, and that is still the case. And that is why the council finds itself in this situation, and it had nothing to do with Cavetown Council.

Hope that is clear enough you to understand OWC, and helps to clear up your misunderstanding.

Tick Tock
[quote][p][bold]OUT WITH CAVETOWN[/bold] wrote: Graham Forsyth says... "If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?" Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!.[/p][/quote]Here you are OWC, a chronological review of how KTC's ambitious project, the infamous civic centre, was faring before Cavetown came along. 28 January 2011. KTC Financial Adviser, Keith Pickles. Report on 2011-12 Budget 2) There is no provision in the budget for the running costs of the Civic Centre. All these costs will have to be met from income. This includes the costs of repaying the PWLB loan of £1.1, which in 2011-12 will amount to around £50,000 3) The capital cost of the Civic centre will have to be met from the £1.1 m PWLB loan plus the £110,000 available from the sale of the Skipton Road Allotments There are no other reserves available to fund any additional expenditure apart from cutting the 2011-12 revenue expenditure. 4) It is likely that the income generated by the projects coordinator will fall short of the budget in 2011-2012. This can be met from general reserves in this year. However, should income fail to meet the budget figure in 2011-12, there are only small reserves to cover this, and could probably only be financed by reducing spending elsewhere. “April 2012 – The civic centre opens “ April Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward. - £26,118.62. May 2012 KTC confidential document. Committee Report – Civic Centre “Taking into account the above expected expenditure, this leaves the Civic Centre projected balance into -£10,750 without the costs for the Civic Centre opening catering and the running costs including furniture & equipment lease charges accounted for. Unless there is a vast amount of income generated, it will be the Town Council reserves that will be supporting the shortfall.” Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward-£39,565.09 June 2012. KTC confidential document. Committee Report – Civic Centre “Taking into account the above expected expenditure this leaves a projected balance of -£54,840 for the Civic centre. This does not include running costs. Unless there is a vast amount of income generated, it ill be the Town Council reserves that will be supporting the shortfall.” Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£70,568.28 K.N. Thursday 26th July 2012. Civic centre 'in money losses' “Keighley Town Council’s new North Street civic centre has allegedly suffered serious financial losses for two consecutive months. The claims have been made by Riddlesden resident Graham Forsyth” “Mr Parry said Mr Forsyth’s figures were wrong and based on out-of-date, incomplete information. He said Mr Forsyth had not seen details contained in other documents which show how new sources of income will cover the expenditure.” Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£79,785.00 Note. When I asked KTC what these new sources of income were the town clerk ,Miggy Bailey, informed me there were none. Why then did Alan Parry state to the KN there were new sources of income? K.N. Thursday 2nd August 2012.Council hits back over claims centre loses money “The town’s mayor, Councillor George Metcalf, this week hit back at claims that the new facility had suffered serious financial losses. In a statement provided to the Keighley News on Tuesday he said: “The Civic Centre finances have not been in a loss situation and to date are still in the black. “It is anticipated that the annual minimum expected income will be £219,000. The committed expected expenses per year for the civic centre will be £216,000. “These figures do not include any profit share and are based on worst case scenario figures.” Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£84,831.41 September Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£137,204.59 November MINUTES OF A MEETING OF KEIGHLEY TOWN COUNCIL THURSDAY 1 NOVEMBER 2012 “In response to questioning, Councillor Philip explained that the Civic Centre is currently being subsidised by the Town Council’s Contingency Funds and funding has been loaned to the Social Enterprise Company, both as a temporary measure.” RESOLVED “That Councillor Pedley leads an investigation into the situation surrounding advertising and commission with a local company with whom the Town Council has had dealings.” Extract from Pedley report. 6.4 There is good reason to believe that AP failed to deliver the expected outcomes that were tasked for the Civic Centre. KTC made a considerable financial committed on the understanding that the SPC would ensure that the centre's running costs were fully covered. This has not been accomplished and has left KTC in a precarious position. The current financial deficit stands at £64,000. Full report can be read here. https://docs.google. com/file/d/0ByE4D40i mmo-Tkdmb3VkdURKaEk/ edit?pli=1 Civic centre, receipts and payments April - February 2013. Balance to carry forward -£170,258.25 K.N. Thursday 7th February 2013 Keighley Town Council bids for 72.6 per cent charges hike “Keighley residents face a massive inflation-busting rise in town council charges to prop up its loss-making civic centre.” K.N. 18 February 2013.Keighley Civic Centre deserves support, says chairman Lionel Lockley “The centre, in North Street, has attracted fierce criticism since it emerged it is £74,000 in the red. But Keighley town councillor Lionel Lockley said he and his fellow committee members would do all in their power to make the building a success.” As Cavetown was only created in February 2013, and the civic centre project started back in 2010, we can also read how the attaining of partners was progressing. Take note of the years, not months, in attaining partners MINUTES OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 7 JULY 2010 “The Special Projects Co-ordinator confirmed that the potential partners could not be named as they are not yet contractually committed, with some opportunities having multiple interested parties. “ MINUTES OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 09 NOVEMBER 2011 “The names of the partners will be announced soon, the paperwork is currently with the Solicitors.” MINUTES OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE WEDNESDAY 7 MARCH 2012 “It was confirmed that three partners had now signed their agreements.” MINUTES OF THE MANAGEMENT & STAFFING COMMITTEE MONDAY 23 JULY 2012 Update on Partners “Mr Parry explained that arrangements are almost complete with all partners. The caterers have now been replaced with a Company who is in a position to become a fully fledged partner. All bonds and rents for the Centre are almost up to date and all contracts will be finalised shortly.” 16 October 2012 reply from town clerk: “I can confirm that the partners in the Civic Centre are Money Mediation, Jigsaw Properties, The Cell at the Civic and The Police Experience.  All have signed  up.” 25 February 2013, the last update from the town clerk on the partners contracts was thus: “In response to your request for copy Contracts with partners in the Civic Centre I can confirm that there are no Contracts.” The receipts and payments show for each month from April to December there was a minus balance to carry forward. The two confidential civic centre reports from May-June 2012 warned of the need to generate vast amount of income, and the centre had only been open since April. The reality is the centre was never making enough money to cover it's running costs, and that is still the case. And that is why the council finds itself in this situation, and it had nothing to do with Cavetown Council. Hope that is clear enough you to understand OWC, and helps to clear up your misunderstanding. Tick Tock Graham Forsyth

3:34pm Fri 14 Feb 14

OUT WITH CAVETOWN says...

OUT WITH CAVETOWN wrote:
Graham Forsyth says...
"If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?"

Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!.
My posts reads "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign ". NOW UNUSED -------NOW UNUSED , PUT IN BOLD (Humour) , not before Cavetown ,but because of the actions of Cavetown after it was. formed ,NOW NOW NOW!.
[quote][p][bold]OUT WITH CAVETOWN[/bold] wrote: Graham Forsyth says... "If not unused, why the £250,000 plus yearly deficit? If not unwanted, why the lack of paying visitors which were supposed to help make it profitable? Maybe if those who voted for this failed project had kept their sleeves role down and their hands in their pockets, parishioners would not have had to face a 72.65 precept hike to help bail it out. How is that delivering positive benefits to the people of Keighley?" Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign!.[/p][/quote]My posts reads "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign ". NOW UNUSED -------NOW UNUSED , PUT IN BOLD (Humour) , not before Cavetown ,but because of the actions of Cavetown after it was. formed ,NOW NOW NOW!. OUT WITH CAVETOWN

6:45pm Fri 14 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

Yes OWC, I did see the NOW UNUSED,( Humour) Did you understand my post was to show that it was ALWAYS UNUSED, THEN as well as NOW.

Tick Tock
Yes OWC, I did see the NOW UNUSED,( Humour) Did you understand my post was to show that it was ALWAYS UNUSED, THEN as well as NOW. Tick Tock Graham Forsyth

2:08am Sat 15 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

Out with Cavetown writes-
"My posts reads "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign ". NOW UNUSED -------NOW UNUSED , PUT IN BOLD (Humour) , not before Cavetown ,but because of the actions of Cavetown after it was. formed ,NOW NOW NOW!."

So where is your evidence to support this claim OWC?
There have been several articles in the Keighley News recently which have involved ex tenants at the Civic Centre.
In these articles I can find no mention of these Businessmen claiming that the problems they encountered were down to the actions of a Facebook Group.
Of course there isn't, to make such absurd and ridiculous statements is farfetched and desperate.
As well respected and successful people of the Business world, these ex tenants have clearly identified the cause of their problems and the reason for the failings of their business ventures at the Civic Centre.
The problem is unequivocally Keighley Town council.

Of course OWC you may come up with some evidence which supports your above claim, I look forward to reading it. (Although I doubt you can produce any).
Until then I can only say your claims are untruthful and as such the words of a liar.
In the past 12 months I have become accustom to the main tactics employed by the KTC hierarchy and their minions. Namely lying and deceit.
Although your moniker is relatively new your tactics are old and ineffective.

Meanwhile the investigation(s) looms ever closer and the words of yourself and your increasingly worried cohorts become ever more desperate.
The names might change but the message is still the same-
"We are the KTC hierarchy and we are desperate to blame others and absolve ourselves".

Rather than the constant name changes OWC, why not change your tactics, admit your mistakes, remove the fools and start trying to resolves the problems.
Or is that just all too hard.

Cavendo Tutus
Simon
Out with Cavetown writes- "My posts reads "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign ". NOW UNUSED -------NOW UNUSED , PUT IN BOLD (Humour) , not before Cavetown ,but because of the actions of Cavetown after it was. formed ,NOW NOW NOW!." So where is your evidence to support this claim OWC? There have been several articles in the Keighley News recently which have involved ex tenants at the Civic Centre. In these articles I can find no mention of these Businessmen claiming that the problems they encountered were down to the actions of a Facebook Group. Of course there isn't, to make such absurd and ridiculous statements is farfetched and desperate. As well respected and successful people of the Business world, these ex tenants have clearly identified the cause of their problems and the reason for the failings of their business ventures at the Civic Centre. The problem is unequivocally Keighley Town council. Of course OWC you may come up with some evidence which supports your above claim, I look forward to reading it. (Although I doubt you can produce any). Until then I can only say your claims are untruthful and as such the words of a liar. In the past 12 months I have become accustom to the main tactics employed by the KTC hierarchy and their minions. Namely lying and deceit. Although your moniker is relatively new your tactics are old and ineffective. Meanwhile the investigation(s) looms ever closer and the words of yourself and your increasingly worried cohorts become ever more desperate. The names might change but the message is still the same- "We are the KTC hierarchy and we are desperate to blame others and absolve ourselves". Rather than the constant name changes OWC, why not change your tactics, admit your mistakes, remove the fools and start trying to resolves the problems. Or is that just all too hard. Cavendo Tutus Simon Always a 708 Skinhead

7:34am Sat 15 Feb 14

Elizabeth Mitchell says...

Some (note some) of Cllr Dick Mitchell's claims are rightly the things we would expect of the council. But to take the credit for it is contemptible. A Keighley resident fought a long campaign for to get the Green Dog Walker Scheme going, with no support from the council. She was successful with Bradford Council, Keighley council only jumped on the bandwagon once it was successful.
Some of his boasts leave a sour taste. The grit bins for instance, we already pay Bradford to provide and to refill the bins. Instead of lobbying on our behalf, the council buy another load and pay for the grit. So we are paying twice. Councillors are then paid expenses for auditing/ inspecting the bins. They obviously missed the fact that yours has a broken lid Katiery.
Some (note some) of Cllr Dick Mitchell's claims are rightly the things we would expect of the council. But to take the credit for it is contemptible. A Keighley resident fought a long campaign for to get the Green Dog Walker Scheme going, with no support from the council. She was successful with Bradford Council, Keighley council only jumped on the bandwagon once it was successful. Some of his boasts leave a sour taste. The grit bins for instance, we already pay Bradford to provide and to refill the bins. Instead of lobbying on our behalf, the council buy another load and pay for the grit. So we are paying twice. Councillors are then paid expenses for auditing/ inspecting the bins. They obviously missed the fact that yours has a broken lid Katiery. Elizabeth Mitchell

8:27am Sat 15 Feb 14

Ian-Holt Roberts says...

Always a 708 Skinhead wrote:
Out with Cavetown writes-
"My posts reads "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign ". NOW UNUSED -------NOW UNUSED , PUT IN BOLD (Humour) , not before Cavetown ,but because of the actions of Cavetown after it was. formed ,NOW NOW NOW!."

So where is your evidence to support this claim OWC?
There have been several articles in the Keighley News recently which have involved ex tenants at the Civic Centre.
In these articles I can find no mention of these Businessmen claiming that the problems they encountered were down to the actions of a Facebook Group.
Of course there isn't, to make such absurd and ridiculous statements is farfetched and desperate.
As well respected and successful people of the Business world, these ex tenants have clearly identified the cause of their problems and the reason for the failings of their business ventures at the Civic Centre.
The problem is unequivocally Keighley Town council.

Of course OWC you may come up with some evidence which supports your above claim, I look forward to reading it. (Although I doubt you can produce any).
Until then I can only say your claims are untruthful and as such the words of a liar.
In the past 12 months I have become accustom to the main tactics employed by the KTC hierarchy and their minions. Namely lying and deceit.
Although your moniker is relatively new your tactics are old and ineffective.

Meanwhile the investigation(s) looms ever closer and the words of yourself and your increasingly worried cohorts become ever more desperate.
The names might change but the message is still the same-
"We are the KTC hierarchy and we are desperate to blame others and absolve ourselves".

Rather than the constant name changes OWC, why not change your tactics, admit your mistakes, remove the fools and start trying to resolves the problems.
Or is that just all too hard.

Cavendo Tutus
Simon
SIMON THIS LATEST NAME CHANGE MEANS THAT EVERY TIME YOU RESPOND TO HIM YOU ARE WRITING IN FULL HIS NAME WHICH IS O W C I AM SURE HE GETS A KICK OUT OF IT
[quote][p][bold]Always a 708 Skinhead[/bold] wrote: Out with Cavetown writes- "My posts reads "Even a fool would know its now unused because of the Cavetown Campaign ". NOW UNUSED -------NOW UNUSED , PUT IN BOLD (Humour) , not before Cavetown ,but because of the actions of Cavetown after it was. formed ,NOW NOW NOW!." So where is your evidence to support this claim OWC? There have been several articles in the Keighley News recently which have involved ex tenants at the Civic Centre. In these articles I can find no mention of these Businessmen claiming that the problems they encountered were down to the actions of a Facebook Group. Of course there isn't, to make such absurd and ridiculous statements is farfetched and desperate. As well respected and successful people of the Business world, these ex tenants have clearly identified the cause of their problems and the reason for the failings of their business ventures at the Civic Centre. The problem is unequivocally Keighley Town council. Of course OWC you may come up with some evidence which supports your above claim, I look forward to reading it. (Although I doubt you can produce any). Until then I can only say your claims are untruthful and as such the words of a liar. In the past 12 months I have become accustom to the main tactics employed by the KTC hierarchy and their minions. Namely lying and deceit. Although your moniker is relatively new your tactics are old and ineffective. Meanwhile the investigation(s) looms ever closer and the words of yourself and your increasingly worried cohorts become ever more desperate. The names might change but the message is still the same- "We are the KTC hierarchy and we are desperate to blame others and absolve ourselves". Rather than the constant name changes OWC, why not change your tactics, admit your mistakes, remove the fools and start trying to resolves the problems. Or is that just all too hard. Cavendo Tutus Simon[/p][/quote]SIMON THIS LATEST NAME CHANGE MEANS THAT EVERY TIME YOU RESPOND TO HIM YOU ARE WRITING IN FULL HIS NAME WHICH IS O W C I AM SURE HE GETS A KICK OUT OF IT Ian-Holt Roberts

10:42am Sat 15 Feb 14

Graham Forsyth says...

Elizabeth Mitchell wrote:
Some (note some) of Cllr Dick Mitchell's claims are rightly the things we would expect of the council. But to take the credit for it is contemptible. A Keighley resident fought a long campaign for to get the Green Dog Walker Scheme going, with no support from the council. She was successful with Bradford Council, Keighley council only jumped on the bandwagon once it was successful.
Some of his boasts leave a sour taste. The grit bins for instance, we already pay Bradford to provide and to refill the bins. Instead of lobbying on our behalf, the council buy another load and pay for the grit. So we are paying twice. Councillors are then paid expenses for auditing/ inspecting the bins. They obviously missed the fact that yours has a broken lid Katiery.
"A Keighley Town Council committee chairman claims he and his colleagues are delivering real benefits for local people."

And what does this chairmen think of the civic centre that has been instrumental in delivering a 72.6% precept rise and is fully responsible for delivering a £250,000 plus deficit?

K.N. Thursday 13 February 2014. Councillors leap to Civic Centre defence as they admit it might never make money.
"Coun Graham Mitchell said he was one of many councillors who originally voted in favour of the civic centre project. "I don't accept that it's unused and unwanted - I'm proud of the civic centre and I will continue to support it."

So how much does the W&T Committee chaired by Cllr Graham Mitchell actually spend on delivering these benefits for local people?

We do know from the Total 2014/15 Budget of £792,511.00 that only £98,000, that is 12.4% of the entire budget will be spent on the Keighley Parish. From the same budget we know £265,184.00 , that is 33.5% of the entire budget will be spent on the civic centre.

Questions:

1.Are we to take it the civic centre is of more importance than the entire Keighley Parish?

2.Is there is nothing else needs spending on the Parish above £ 98,000?

Now look at what Cllr Mitchell actually says:

"I don't accept that it's unused "

No Cllr Mitchell, nor does anyone else. What others point out is that it is `underused`, and it was the `paid for use` that was to make it self-financing and not a burden on the precept. It has failed to deliver what was promised by those who voted for it, thus has delivered a financial burden and a 50 year debt on the town.

" and unwanted"

So who wants it Cllr Mitchell, besides such as yourself and others within the council who voted for it? If it is not unwanted, that would suggest it is wanted, so why is it underused? Why did KTC not ask Keighley parishioners if they wanted a civic centre in the first place? And will Cllr Mitchell, and those others within the council who support the civic centre now ask Keighley parishioners if they still want the council to keep spending money to the tune of £250,000 plus to keep it open, or close it and spend the money save on the Parish of Keighley.


How long will KTC continue on with this financial silliness.

Tick Tock
[quote][p][bold]Elizabeth Mitchell[/bold] wrote: Some (note some) of Cllr Dick Mitchell's claims are rightly the things we would expect of the council. But to take the credit for it is contemptible. A Keighley resident fought a long campaign for to get the Green Dog Walker Scheme going, with no support from the council. She was successful with Bradford Council, Keighley council only jumped on the bandwagon once it was successful. Some of his boasts leave a sour taste. The grit bins for instance, we already pay Bradford to provide and to refill the bins. Instead of lobbying on our behalf, the council buy another load and pay for the grit. So we are paying twice. Councillors are then paid expenses for auditing/ inspecting the bins. They obviously missed the fact that yours has a broken lid Katiery.[/p][/quote]"A Keighley Town Council committee chairman claims he and his colleagues are delivering real benefits for local people." And what does this chairmen think of the civic centre that has been instrumental in delivering a 72.6% precept rise and is fully responsible for delivering a £250,000 plus deficit? K.N. Thursday 13 February 2014. Councillors leap to Civic Centre defence as they admit it might never make money. "Coun Graham Mitchell said he was one of many councillors who originally voted in favour of the civic centre project. "I don't accept that it's unused and unwanted - I'm proud of the civic centre and I will continue to support it." So how much does the W&T Committee chaired by Cllr Graham Mitchell actually spend on delivering these benefits for local people? We do know from the Total 2014/15 Budget of £792,511.00 that only £98,000, that is 12.4% of the entire budget will be spent on the Keighley Parish. From the same budget we know £265,184.00 , that is 33.5% of the entire budget will be spent on the civic centre. Questions: 1.Are we to take it the civic centre is of more importance than the entire Keighley Parish? 2.Is there is nothing else needs spending on the Parish above £ 98,000? Now look at what Cllr Mitchell actually says: "I don't accept that it's unused " No Cllr Mitchell, nor does anyone else. What others point out is that it is `underused`, and it was the `paid for use` that was to make it self-financing and not a burden on the precept. It has failed to deliver what was promised by those who voted for it, thus has delivered a financial burden and a 50 year debt on the town. " and unwanted" So who wants it Cllr Mitchell, besides such as yourself and others within the council who voted for it? If it is not unwanted, that would suggest it is wanted, so why is it underused? Why did KTC not ask Keighley parishioners if they wanted a civic centre in the first place? And will Cllr Mitchell, and those others within the council who support the civic centre now ask Keighley parishioners if they still want the council to keep spending money to the tune of £250,000 plus to keep it open, or close it and spend the money save on the Parish of Keighley. How long will KTC continue on with this financial silliness. Tick Tock Graham Forsyth

8:10am Mon 17 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

councillor Dicky Mitchell brags about supplying police cameras and mountain bikes.
I thought that the Police Force was a separate entity to the Town council and as such were funded by their own means.
Perhaps these "sweeteners" go some way to explain the prompt and en masse response received by councillors to attend non criminal occurrences such as council meetings attended by the Public..
Or home visits to members of the Public from the Boys in Blue about such pressing matters as legitimate correspondence to councillor's .gov.uk email addresses.

Another example of the Town council wasting money on services which people are already paying for.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the career history of any of the councillors.
councillor Dicky Mitchell brags about supplying police cameras and mountain bikes. I thought that the Police Force was a separate entity to the Town council and as such were funded by their own means. Perhaps these "sweeteners" go some way to explain the prompt and en masse response received by councillors to attend non criminal occurrences such as council meetings attended by the Public.. Or home visits to members of the Public from the Boys in Blue about such pressing matters as legitimate correspondence to councillor's .gov.uk email addresses. Another example of the Town council wasting money on services which people are already paying for. I wonder if it has anything to do with the career history of any of the councillors. Always a 708 Skinhead

8:14am Mon 17 Feb 14

Always a 708 Skinhead says...

As for "rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting".
All I can see is rolling up their sleeves to sign cheques from the Public purse and heavy liftng of sandwich trays at council meetings which once again are paid for out of Keighley Peoples money not their own.
As for "rolled up their sleeves, done the heavy lifting". All I can see is rolling up their sleeves to sign cheques from the Public purse and heavy liftng of sandwich trays at council meetings which once again are paid for out of Keighley Peoples money not their own. Always a 708 Skinhead

3:48pm Tue 18 Feb 14

samuels david says...

Mr Forsyth On another site I noted with great absorption your meticulous and perceptive chronological approach from 2002 to present times in the presentation of highlighting the moral decline of KTC since I and those we had thought were with us in setting up what we had envisaged would be a beacon of honesty to all others groups in the country. The idea was to be the mainstream of full transparency in all ways.
That we failed is my embarrassment and sorrow to all those others who were endeavouring to set up small local non political administrations.
That KTC was highjack by what I have since described as the Walter Mitty types with characteristic tendencies of dangerously obsessive egomania, such as the Councillor known as LGM, his doppelgangers, plus the others misfits who try to join his madness in disputing the reality you and your colleagues of Cave Town Council have discovered in KTC’s own documents, that they themselves submitted as being competent to HM Customs and Revenue other national authorities.
As you are aware, when in Council, all offers of my help were refused with gross insulting tirades of childish behaviour and racist remarks in emails and in chambers.
What has not been said is that the reason animosity first started in 2002 was because the then Town Clerk, herself offered her known legal skills, but was turned down with such retorts as, ‘I’ll not having a girl telling me what to do!’
It was at the moment I’d realised that ego was at hand. I had lost that skirmish and have fought a rearguard battle ever since!
Whilst never a member of your Cavetown Council group, my admiration for all it members is momentous.
I continue to fight this battle for a fastidious and open KTC, as I promised Brian Hudson, ex councillor, hours before his passing.
Brian was, in my opinion, mercilessly pilloried for many months to an earlier death by some members of the KT hierarchy who had realised he was seriously ill when attending council meetings in his efforts to turn around, what both he and saw as questionable issues of financial conduct, which were never allowed to be questioned in Council chambers.

David Samuels

PS Mr Forsyth; I had promised Brian I would insist the Audit Commission make detailed enquires of financial and other issues from 2002 onwards and that would include the involvement of a supposedly nonaligned Keighley Police Force in marginalising public complainants of KTC.

David Samuels
Mr Forsyth On another site I noted with great absorption your meticulous and perceptive chronological approach from 2002 to present times in the presentation of highlighting the moral decline of KTC since I and those we had thought were with us in setting up what we had envisaged would be a beacon of honesty to all others groups in the country. The idea was to be the mainstream of full transparency in all ways. That we failed is my embarrassment and sorrow to all those others who were endeavouring to set up small local non political administrations. That KTC was highjack by what I have since described as the Walter Mitty types with characteristic tendencies of dangerously obsessive egomania, such as the Councillor known as LGM, his doppelgangers, plus the others misfits who try to join his madness in disputing the reality you and your colleagues of Cave Town Council have discovered in KTC’s own documents, that they themselves submitted as being competent to HM Customs and Revenue other national authorities. As you are aware, when in Council, all offers of my help were refused with gross insulting tirades of childish behaviour and racist remarks in emails and in chambers. What has not been said is that the reason animosity first started in 2002 was because the then Town Clerk, herself offered her known legal skills, but was turned down with such retorts as, ‘I’ll not having a girl telling me what to do!’ It was at the moment I’d realised that ego was at hand. I had lost that skirmish and have fought a rearguard battle ever since! Whilst never a member of your Cavetown Council group, my admiration for all it members is momentous. I continue to fight this battle for a fastidious and open KTC, as I promised Brian Hudson, ex councillor, hours before his passing. Brian was, in my opinion, mercilessly pilloried for many months to an earlier death by some members of the KT hierarchy who had realised he was seriously ill when attending council meetings in his efforts to turn around, what both he and saw as questionable issues of financial conduct, which were never allowed to be questioned in Council chambers. David Samuels PS Mr Forsyth; I had promised Brian I would insist the Audit Commission make detailed enquires of financial and other issues from 2002 onwards and that would include the involvement of a supposedly nonaligned Keighley Police Force in marginalising public complainants of KTC. David Samuels samuels david

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